Clash of Titans - Round 2

[u/xWolfpaladin]

The Clash of Titans

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Tier Setter

Any participant can submit either:

3 entrant that can achieve a Unlikely Victory - Likely Victory against bloodlusted Iron Fist (each entrant should be able to 1v1 iron fist)

OR

1 entrant that can achieve a Unlikely Victory - Likely Victory against bloodlusted Luke Cage

Both of these combatants will be using Tournament Specific RTs that will be provided, the goal being to use a high-end version of these characters that leave as little interpretation to entrants as possible.

Here are the Tournament specific RTs

Specifics

Each participant can submit a team of 3 Iron Fist Tier Characters AND/OR 1 Luke Cage Tier Character. You can choose to submit only 1 of these options, so submitting only 1 Luke Cage, or submit characters fitting both descriptions. How this works is that you private message a judge before the round starts telling them whether you want to use your 3 Iron Fists or your 1 Luke Cage in the upcoming round, and then that will be kept secret until the round goes up. If you do not message a judge before the round goes up, then it will be decided for you by coin flip.

Battle rules

Speed will be equalized to a base of 257 meters per second (mach .75). Reactions are equalized to 5 milliseconds. However, speed boosts by character abilities are allowed. Projectiles are relative in speed to the character.

Arena

Its the most densely populated city in North America, it's where Frank Sinatra wants to go, you know it as the Big apple. It's New York City. Characters start 514 meters apart. Your characters know that they have to defeat their opponent to leave the city. The only way your characters can defeat there opponents is by killing or incapacitating them - BFR is not an option.

• The fights start in the exact center of NYC with opposing teams starting 500 meters away from each other, and characters on the same team will start 10 meters away from their teammates.

For the purpose of this tournament, assume there are no other people in NYC.

Debate Rules

If either you or your opponent is using a Luke cage tier Character, then you both are limited to 2 comments of 10k characters for each response, and have 3 main responses. If both participants are using the 3 Iron fist tier character then you are both limited to 3 comments of 10k characters, and have 3 main responses.

The exact format will be Intro/First Response/Second Response/Third Response/Conclusion.

Your intro should give us a good idea of the power level of your characters, which ones you're using, and who they are.

Your conclusion should sum up arguments you've already brought forth.

A conclusion may be submitted any time after both third responses have been done.

Victory Conditions

Winning a match will be determined by a council of judges including myself, u/epizestro, and u/he-man69.

Judges won't judge on their preconceived notions of how strong the characters are, but rather on how well you argue them to win

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How long is this round?

Round 2 will last 5 days, from August 9th to August 14th, 12pm est.

However, if you are unable to submit a response in time for the deadline, due to real life concerns or similar, please request an extension from a judge.

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OOT calling during the Tournament Proper

As this is a debate tournament, it would be a bit silly to not be allowed to debate things. As such your debate skills will be put to the test if or when your Opponent calls your characters OOT during the Rounds. Simply debate better than your opponent and your characters will stay in the tournament.

OOT arguments in the tournament proper will be handled as a separate decision from the main judgements. How this works is that, should you argue OOT, whether you were successful will be decided by a judge vote, and then the judgements will proceed taking the result of the vote into account.

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Miscellaneous Rules.

• There will be an unbreakable sphere around the arena, and as such no one can enter or leave. You cannot teleport outside the dome (Characters like Nightcrawler will be allowed to teleport, but cannot actually exit the dome). There is no possible way for a character to enter or leave.

• The fights start in the exact center of NYC with opposing teams starting 500 meters away from each other, and characters on the same team will start 10 meters away from their teammates.

• All weapons begin holstered, however all draw feats scale to movement speed.

• The battles will start at high noon unless stipulated otherwise

• For something to count as incapacitatation it would need to last for 3 minutes.

• Characters are in-character for the actual tournament

• Characters in a 3v1 are lined up as they are submitted. 1v1s will be randomized.

• You must give your opponent a chance to get two responses in. You cannot purposefully delay a response to deprive your opponent of one.

• All rules are subject to judge discretion.

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Round 2

Updated Bracket

Randomized 1v1 Order

If your team entirely consists of Iron Fist tiers, and the enemy does as well, you will be split into 3 1v1s.

If either have a Luke Cage tier, or two Luke tiers, it will be a 1v3 or 1v1.

1v2

2v3

3v1

Round 1 Matchups

• Coconut-Crab vs [removed]

3 v 1

• Kjell vs HighSlayerRalton

3 v 1

• Mikhailnikolaievitch vs Kirbin

3 v 1

• TheMightyBox72 vs ImadeThis

3 v 1

• GuyOfEvil vs Fj668

3 v 1

• BlackBloodedLord vs British_Tea_Company

3 v 1

• Ame-No-Nobuko vs EmbraceAllDeath

3 v 1

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Tribunal for those interested

Round 1 for those interested

Round 1 results

[u/GuyOfEvil]

Third Response

These are both well within the range of where Kenshiro can use his Nanto Seiken or his Aura to attack Phantom Rider. Both of those are similarly a long cry away from the half a kilometer distance that Kenshiro is at compared to his opponents. If Kenshiro needs to get closer to Phantom then Phantom will similarly need to get closer to him to reliably hit him.

Shooting small targets from a short distance directly correlates to somebody's ability to shoot larger targets from a long distance. Phantom Rider's insane accuracy at close range should be more than enough to shoot a man in the process of dodging an attack.

At the best you could say that this means Firebird will end up burning Kenshiro because Hulk who has no problems with Lava shows no severe burning from her fire. Kaioh and Hyoh's bodies suffered no damage from being covered in lava and Ken scales to them.

This scaling is actually extremely questionable. Firstly this clearly isn't a heat resistance feat for Hyoh considering he was already dead before the lava, and its not even provably a heat resistance feat for Kaioh, considering we see his body get covered in lava and then that's the last we see of him.

Even if you assume this is a heat resistance feat, there's no way to scale these people's heat resistance to Kenshiro just because they fought.

I would argue it is indeed far off. We're talking about a solid rock the size of a small house. That's a 100+ ton feat at the absolute minimum meanwhile Kenshiro is lifting it up over his head. The train car feat might get close but considering less weight than that clearly showed Spider-Man struggling greatly that's definitely an outlier. Kenshiro is clearly a lot stronger than Spider-Man is and that's when Kenshiro doesn't even have an expression on his face.

I'd agree that Kenshiro is stronger than Spider-Man considering he can do more than Spider-Man's high ends, but how much Spider-Man struggles doesn't really matter. The Jackal knows Peter down to the atom, and calibrates the chains massively above his strength output. So Kaine is stronger than Peter's highest possible end.

I think the most sturdy example of Kaine in this being caught off guard is that he is actually interrupted mid-sentence by the coming of the wind.

I have no idea where this comes from. He thinks "Damn." and then is blown off his feet. There's literally a period.

Other than that, where's the evidence he tried to brace himself against it? Spider-Men are well known for their ability to wall crawl, if he wasn't off-guard don't you think he would try to use his webs or his wall-crawling to keep himself grounded?

Wall crawling can be overpowered. I won't scale to it since there's no evidence he uses it, but him not specifically mentioning using it isn't evidence he didn't.

And the nail that crucified the Kaine scaling.

Where's your evidence that Kaine isn't weakened from this? Kaine couldn't have possibly been at his peak if he's been fighting against an entire team of people.

It was a short fight in which he was only hit three times, and he went into Roxxon that night, there's no reason for him to be very weakened.

Besides that, what do you suppose would weaken him more, a fight where he took three hits and ran away that happened several hours ago, or a long drawn out fight where he fought Spider-Ock, several mutant spiders, and Carrion, at the end of which he could barely stand, because that was what he was coming off of when he preformed the chains feat.

Yes but lack of feats dictate that him overpowering a serious Scarlet Spider would be PIS. If Scarlet Spider has shown to do better things than he has with his strength then that means he should be stronger.

He has no anti-feats of failing to knock over somebody stronger than Scarlet Spider, this isn't PIS, its just a feat.

Except that Texas Twister has shown that his winds are stronger when he's inside of them than when he's outside of them. Every big twister that does a lot of damage he's inside of them. To assume that the winds he make with his hand that are smaller and do less damage would be of similar power is crazy.

Except they aren't smaller. These are bigger than a decent amount of the tornadoes he's been inside, including the one he pushed back Thing in. And heck, knocking down Scarlet Spider is better than most of the feats of tornados he's in. He can generate the same amount of wind weather he's in or out of the tornado, and its the same wind being generated. There's literally no reason to believe one would be weaker than the other.

I'd argue that being able to turn a stone cross larger than a human being into pure rubble is better than just lifting a few cars.

Damage output wise sure, but damage doesn't really matter against wind. Texas Twister has displaced more with his wind than Kenshiro has with his aura, so if Kenshiro tried to displace Texas Twister's wind with his aura, he would very likely lose.

Even if Kenshiro couldn't move while doing that that doesn't mean he can't move after it. Kenshiro can launch his aura towards the fire considering it will be a very easily noticed attack. After that he just has to move before the bullets can hit him and at a half a kilometer that won't be incredibly hard. Especially when the Hokuto Shinken allows it's user to unconsciously react to attacks.

Based on my opponent's arguments, Kenshiro will block noticible ranged attacks with aura. If that's the case, it stands to reason he would attempt to block Phantom Rider's shots with aura, which would result in him dying.

That's clearly an underselling. The majority of her attacks she appears normal where as with this one she turns into a gigantic phoenix of flame. There's also a large swatch of problems with her.

I doubt Firebird will open up with her absolute strongest attack against Kenshiro.

Both of these are true, sure, but if she realizes her normal attacks aren't doing anything she'll likely go for a stronger attack.

Firebird is a Christian.

If a normal attack had no effect, she'd probably think he'd be able to at least survive a stronger attack.

The speed of our characters should allow this distance to be cleared within two seconds. It would take Kenshiro a moment for his range to become viable. Not to mention, Kenshiro has shown he can use his aura to send people flying large distances after being hit. I find it hard to believe that he can't make it extend out a decent distance.

There is no scan of him using it at more than a few feet's distance. He starts basically in range of my team, and as he approaches to attack he'll only become an easier target.

Kenshiro will use whatever technique that allows him the greatest chance of victory against his opponent. This is why he will just randomly use Nanto against opponents when he could have easily used Hokuto or how he will use Aura just to make a point. This is why Kenshiro will spend 100 punches to make a person explode when he could just as easily use a single finger.

The claim that he uses whatever technique gives him the greatest chance of victory and then examples of him using extraordinary attacks when simple ones would do seem... at odds to say the least. If he were to use the most effective technique in every fight he would stay at range constantly, but he fights in melee all the time.

There is no reason to believe he will fight in a manner he has literally never fought in before against completely unknown opponents.

The ranged game is something that Kenshiro can play if he wants to, he doesn't need it. He could just as easily close the distance and kill my opponent's team.

It will take him at best two full seconds to close the distance, which is only if he doesn't struggle against the winds at all, and doesn't stop to block anything with aura. In those two seconds he will become easier and easier to hit, and my team will have the opportunity to put out several attacks that will severely injure Kenshiro.

That's right. Kenshiro is a physical fighter. You know what physical fighters are good at? Closing the distance between his opponents. The technique Shichisei Tenshin should allow him to deal with either the bullets, the fire, or the winds by making his true attacks unseeable. He will leave his opponents swinging for clones of his true form while he picks them off casually with his Hokuto Shinken.

He has literally never used this technique before. There isn't even evidence that he knows this technique considering he's never seen it. That's Raoh in the scan not him.

Kenshiro could dodge Phantom's bullets without much trouble considering he should be vastly more skilled.

Comparing aim skill to martial arts skill is pretty difficult, but I don't see how Kenshiro's skill will allow him to dodge large amounts of bullets.

Invisibility is nothing Kenshiro hasn't fought against.

This invisibility is a lot different than fighting an invisible opponent with a gun from range. And even then he just barely beats this.

And the ability to make body parts appear out of no where means nothing, Kenshiro can block unconsciously and from sneak attacks

It will allow Phanton Rider to attack from multiple angles from range. Phantom Rider could, for instance, shoot Kenshiro then have his hand appear in the direction Kenshiro is dodging.

I doubt Phantom will just abandon his friends in the thick of battle too.

He's fought with them once and is usually a villain, I doubt he'll care much.

So unless Phantom gets a head shot he's doubtfully going to be actually putting Kenshiro down with his bullets.

He's accurate enough to get headshots, and will probably be going for one

[u/fj668 → u/GuyOfEvil]

Third Response Part 1

Shooting small targets from a short distance directly correlates to somebody's ability to shoot larger targets from a long distance. Phantom Rider's insane accuracy at close range should be more than enough to shoot a man in the process of dodging an attack.

There's a difference from shooting two decently sized targets a few feet away and hitting a relatively small target from half a kilometer away. We're talking about something that is the distance of several football fields worth of distance. This is reaching the end of more difficult sniper shots and Phantom has two revolvers. Kenshiro is a fast moving hard hitting target who will be able to close the distance incredibly quickly. He'll need to get a clean shot on his head as well, the hardest part to hit on his whole body, and that's to reliably kill him. Other wise he will eject the bullets out of his body with his muscles and then he will close the wounds with his shouts. This is all while Kenshiro takes two seconds to cross the distance between them both at his max speed. If Phantom Rider wants to move back he will also need to compensate further for his aim than he has shown. Not to mention, Phantom Rider is on a horse. Kenshiro has scared horses with his presence before.

You can only hype up two feats to be so good before it just sounds ridiculous that they could be comparable. Kenshiro can set off Phantom Rider from getting a shot off, he can dodge what he does throw at him, and if he doesn't hit the head it's not the end of the world thanks to his endurance.

Firstly this clearly isn't a heat resistance feat for Hyoh considering he was already dead before the lava, and its not even provably a heat resistance feat for Kaioh, considering we see his body get covered in lava and then that's the last we see of him.

Their bodies werent deformed noticeably after being drenched in lava the lava cooled before it could actually melt either of them. If anything that's especially good because even Hyoh who was dead who should have no active defense up wasn't even deformed by the lava. They both kept their shape meaning that they have to have at least a decent bit of heat resistance to not get just melted away by it even after a while.

Even if you assume this is a heat resistance feat, there's no way to scale these people's heat resistance to Kenshiro just because they fought.

This is ignoring Kenshiro has his own heat resistance feat and it's pretty good. Lava isn't THAT much hotter than a flamethrower is and Kenshiro wasn't noticeably damaged by it. To imply he wouldn't scale to Hyoh or Kaioh, two people who he was explicitely stronger than doesn't make much sense either.

The Jackal knows Peter down to the atom, and calibrates the chains massively above his strength output. So Kaine is stronger than Peter's highest possible end.

Yeah, but we don't know how much stronger than Peter's high end Kaine is. We know Kenshiro is a good deal past Spider-Man's high end as it is. So we can't really assume that Kaine and Kenshiro are around the same level of power without proven feats of Kaine's that can match Kenshiro's.

I have no idea where this comes from. He thinks "Damn." and then is blown off his feet. There's literally a period.

He had a moment to realize his current situation, enough time to say a single sentence. Not exactly oodles of time to realize he needs to brace himself before he's attacked.

Wall crawling can be overpowered. I won't scale to it since there's no evidence he uses it, but him not specifically mentioning using it isn't evidence he didn't.

You'd think it would be mentioned. Peter Parker can keep hold of a missile going very high into the sky with his wall crawl. The stone of the building he's on specifically gives way before him. It's just more evidence that points towards Kaine being off guard at the moment considering how easily he should have been able to brace himself.

It was a short fight in which he was only hit three times, and he went into Roxxon that night, there's no reason for him to be very weakened.

Thanks for the context. Honestly though, that just makes the Rangers look bad. They couldn't beat Kaine 5v1 who is far less versatile, far less lethal, and far less skilled than Kenshiro is. It's just making me think if Kaine managed to only get hit 3 times by them before getting away, how many hits will they get against Kenshiro who will be trying to kill them in the most efficient way possible?

He has no anti-feats of failing to knock over somebody stronger than Scarlet Spider, this isn't PIS, its just a feat.

Scarlet spider should be able to withstand anything Texas Twister has shown unless he was just plain off guard. If this feat isn't PIS for Scarlet Spider's showing then it's just that Scarlet Spider wasn't trying his best.

Except they aren't smaller. These are bigger than a decent amount of the tornadoes he's been inside, including the one he pushed back Thing in. And heck, knocking down Scarlet Spider is better than most of the feats of tornados he's in.

Even if you wanna argue that the smaller ones can reach decent size you must admit the ones that he's in are far larger.

And heck, knocking down Scarlet Spider is better than most of the feats of tornados he's in.

Honestly that's not saying much, it's still arguable Kaine was off-guard and even if he wasn't Kenshiro is noticeably stronger than Kaine.

Damage output wise sure, but damage doesn't really matter against wind.

I'd argue that it does. Kenshiro's aura can hit harder than Texas Twister's wind can so Kenshiro arguably isn't going to be hit by the wind at it's full force because his aura would just dissipate or deflect it. Either that or his Aura would simply punch through Texas Twister's winds and hit him through them.

Based on my opponent's arguments, Kenshiro will block noticible ranged attacks with aura. If that's the case, it stands to reason he would attempt to block Phantom Rider's shots with aura, which would result in him dying.

This my good man is called skill. The ability to know what strategies to use against what is thrown at you. My opponent's large blast attacks are easily beaten by Kenshiro's aura. Meanwhile his bullets are far more easily just dodged so they can't do lethal damage against him.

[u/fj668 → u/fj668]

Third Response Part 2

I ask this once again though. Can your team kill? Can they really take the life of another man or will they try to use incapacitation against Kenshiro, something that he will endure his way through? Well Kenshiro won't give them that mercy, he'll murder them in the blink of an eye. And you may think you had a good idea using an established team as your partners but will they really be so coordinated when they see their close friends getting sliced to pieces or exploded horrifically before their eyes? How hard is your team? Because Kenshiro is the hardest mother fucker in a world where people are raped for fun.

Both of these are true, sure, but if she realizes her normal attacks aren't doing anything she'll likely go for a stronger attack.

Yeah, but when the first attack does nothing Kenshiro has already closed the distance between the two and murdered them with the Nanto Seiken or the Hokuto Shinken. She'll need time to actually go hard enough to even arguably put Kenshiro down meanwhile Kenshiro will kill from the start.

There is no scan of him using it at more than a few feet's distance. He starts basically in range of my team, and as he approaches to attack he'll only become an easier target.

Close or far, doesn't matter. Kenshiro can just use his aura to block it when it gets close enough to him. His body unconsciously protects himself too, so he'd be able to do it just at the right moment.

If he were to use the most effective technique in every fight he would stay at range constantly, but he fights in melee all the time.

There is a difference between Kenshiro torturing a war lord in front of the people he was terrifying or teaching them a lesson as he sent them to hell and Kenshiro needing to just win a fight to leave a place. Not to mention, he fights within melee range because 99% of the time that's where he ends up being when he goes to his opponents. This is pretty much just arguing that he wouldn't try as hard as he could and let himself get hit. I don't know why he would purposefully let himself get hit if he didn't need to.

It will take him at best two full seconds to close the distance, which is only if he doesn't struggle against the winds at all, and doesn't stop to block anything with aura.

Kenshiro can close an immense distance against them before anything will concretely hurt him. Phantom Rider is the only one here who could actually kill Kenshiro and he needs to draw his weapon.

He has literally never used this technique before. There isn't even evidence that he knows this technique considering he's never seen it. That's Raoh in the scan not him.

Well this is a case of not realizing what Kenshiro does. I thought I might have explained this well enough but it shows I have not.

Kenshiro is the 64th Grand Master of the Hokuto Shinken. He is the inheritor of the strongest martial art passed down a single line from Father to Son for 2000 years. Before Ryuken died he bestowed this rank upon Kenshiro, passing his knowledge and power down unto him rather than his brother Raoh. This is evident considering that Kenshiro knows the Tenha stance which houses the ultimate secrets of the Hokuto Shinken. To top it off, Kenshiro is a more complete successor than Ryuken was lore wise. He mastered the ultimate art of the Hokuto Shinken, Musou Tensei which Ryuken admitted he never understood.

So assume that Kenshiro would not be able to use this technique, the technique of a martial art himself and others have said that he has mastered, is ridiculous.

Comparing aim skill to martial arts skill is pretty difficult, but I don't see how Kenshiro's skill will allow him to dodge large amounts of bullets.

Other masters of the Hokuto Shinken have said that dodging bullets isn't that hard when you know where they're going. This is evidence that aim dodging for them isn't that hard. So I see no reason why he couldn't dodge bullets when it's a admittedly easy skill for them.

This invisibility is a lot different than fighting an invisible opponent with a gun from range. And even then he just barely beats this.

Kenshiro said that he was making his presence undetectable. Kenshiro was still capable of stopping an attack from behind from him. That's not really what I call "Just barely beating"

He's accurate enough to get headshots, and will probably be going for one

He's accurate enough to go with head shots sure, but that doesn't mean he can reliably land a head shot on Kenshiro who is going to be a tough fast moving target to hit.

/u/GuyOfEvil

[u/GuyOfEvil → u/fj668]

Closing Statement

My opponent has still been unable to demonstrate Kenshiro's resistances to my team's forms of attack, nor has he provided suitable counters to their battle strategy.

Texas Twister

My oponment's claim that twisters Texas Twister are inside are weaker than ones he simply creates has no weight. They're the same wind in all cases, and twisters he creates are the same size if not larger as most twisters he's inside, with only one exception.

My opponent completely dropped the point of Kenshiro being able to contest the wind with his aura, meaning that the wind will remain a factor rebuffing Kenshiro throughout the fight, and allow my team to hit their attacks more easily

Firebird

My opponent completely failed to demonstrate Kenshiro's heat resistance even approaching Firebird's heat. The only heat resistance feats provided are massively below what is shown by Firebird based on Hulk scaling, and the closest feat, the lava scaling, was never linked directly to Kenshiro.

Phantom Rider

Phantom Rider's shots damaging Kenshiro has been conceded from the start. My oponment questions Phantom Rider's ability to land shots, but his ability to land extremely precise shots on small targets, as well as Kenshiro's need to approach and him being slowed by Texas Twister's winds should be more than enough for Phantom Rider to land a killing shot.

Kenshiro's Fighting

My opponent has put forth several examples of counters Kenshiro could hypothetically use, but overall they are completely discordant with the way Kenshiro actually fights.

My oponment claims Kenshiro will fight using "...whatever technique that [will] allow him the greatest chance of victory against his opponent." But this is blatently untrue even just by looking at things my opponent has said about how Kenshiro fights.

My opponent proposes Kenshiro using aura to defend against Texas Twister and Firebird despite Kenshiro using ranged aura three times ever and only twice on actual opponents, and literally never using aura defensively.

For approaching, my opponent argues Kenshiro will use a technique that can make his true attacks unseeable despite having never used or even seen this technique before.

My oponment is arguing from the standpoint of a hypothetical peak Kenshiro, when the fact of the matter is Kenshiro just doesn't fight in the way my opponent says he does. Any technique or use of aura that has never been preformed by Kenshiro should not be weighed in this round.

Conclusion

Kenshiro can be injured greatly by Firebird and Phantom Rider, and has no consistent method he is shown to consistently use of approaching them or fighting back from range. His approach is further hampered by Texas Twister's winds, which will lessen his ability to move, dodge, and quickly approach. All of these factors add up to the most likely outcome for this fight being Kenshiro dying at range.

And lastly, my opponent has completely failed to respond to any points made by /u/texasfactsbot and as such should not win the round.

[u/TexasFactsBot → u/GuyOfEvil]

Speaking of Texas, did y'all know that rodeo is the official sport of Texas?

[u/GuyOfEvil → u/TexasFactsBot]

you're goddamned right

[u/fj668 → u/GuyOfEvil]

Closing Statement

Alright, it appears my opponent has just turned to blatantly lying about what I have said about Kenshiro. So it looks like I need to set a few things straight here.

Texas Twister

My opponent has yet to show any actual feats that imply that Texas Twister could even budge Kenshiro. All he has is scaling off of someone that is vastly less physically powerful than Kenshiro. He claims that I stopped arguing that Kenshiro's aura can match his wind yet that's a point I argued until the very end.

Texas twister has shown no feats that he could even survive a single aura blast from Kenshiro, his wind has yet to show the damage output to stop Kenshiro's aura from simply blasting through it, and he hasn't shown the power required to even move Kenshiro.

He has yet to legitimately prove he can reach his max power winds with just his arms. His only argument for this is "They're the same wind" despite the fact that the ones he are inside are far larger than the ones he is outside of.

FireBird

My opponent claims that Fire Bird will be able to severely injure Kenshiro but this is just blatantly false. The best feat he has shown is her being able to cause pain to classic Hulk. Not even damage him noticeably mind you, just get him to scream out and say "It burns". What feat did he show from The Hulk to make this impressive? That's right, he used The Hulk being unaffected by lava. This is something that I have showed from Kenshiro and have even provided scaling from not only an opponent he is stronger than but also an opponent who was dead and would not be defending themselves.

Characters who show Lava-Level heat resistance are clearly not going to be severely injured by Firebird's shots. Especially not the weaker ones she'll break out because she won't want to kill Kenshiro. Not to mention, Kenshiro is just simply far too tough to let these flames bother him a noticeable amount.

Beyond that, her weaker flames don't show enough force to indicate they couldn't just be dissipated by Kenshiro's stronger aura. She will have the time to launch one, maybe two attacks before Kenshiro closes the distance he is at. Kenshiro will dissipate them both and then he's within melee range where he will slaughter them all.

In short, Firebird isn't doing anything here. She's just there as a meat shield along with Twister to protect Phantom. My opponent would just rather not admit that directly.

Phantom Rider

My opponent's argument entirely hinges on Phantom Rider. Without Phantom rider here Kenshiro runs through my opponent's attacks and punches them in half with his bare hands. And he relies on Phantom Rider in ways that Phantom Rider just plain can't deliver on.

He expects to scale two feats of Phantom hitting small objects 5 feet away from him to Phantom being able to practically snipe someone half a kilometer away using two revolvers. Snipers need help making these kinds of shots and that's not when the character is moving incredibly fast. At any range beyond 100 meters we have no proof that Phantom could even reliably get a shot off on Kenshiro.

Beyond that, Phantom Rider needs to actually hit Kenshiro who can casually aim dodge bullets that are mere feet away from him. All he has to argue that he'll hit Kenshiro is "Well he hit those things from a few feet away" meanwhile Kenshiro is coming from hundreds of feet away. There's nothing to say Kenshiro couldn't just dodge his bullets once he gets close enough besides that. And it's shaky proof at best considering Kenshiro's level of skill in martial arts.

To top it off, Phantom Rider NEEDS a head shot to kill Kenshiro. Anything else and Kenshiro will just eject the bullets from his body and Ken will heal them. So he is required to hit Kenshiro on the smallest, hardest to hit part of his body that he will no doubt be protecting against bullets.

Phantom Rider needs to do all that to hope to kill Kenshiro and he needs to do all that within two seconds. If he doesn't then Kenshiro closes the distance and cuts him in half with the Nanto Seiken. Not to mention, this is also on top of a technique that Kenshiro will use to make his attacks and presence undetectable to his opponents.

The way he's describing victory is a 1/10 scenario entirely reliant on a lucky shot. The way I'm describing victory is how it will go down the other 9/10.

Kenshiro's fighting

My opponent will make claims saying that Kenshiro won't use his aura in a fight because he has only been shown using it three times. Essentially he just looked at the feats I provided for Ken's Aura being used and he said "Well that must mean it never happened again." He makes the claim that Kenshiro won't use his aura but when the time comes that he needs to use it, he'll end up using it. Not to mention, one of the times he used his aura in those scans was to specifically counter a ranged attack. So Texas Twister and Firebird with their big ol' ranged attacks are the perfect excuse for Kenshiro to bust out his powerful aura.

He claims that Kenshiro will purposefully job without any reason to do so. Kenshiro has no reason to teach these people a lesson, he has no reason to fight them to learn their martial arts, and he has no prior connection with them that would make him hold back. Even in the scans I have showed Kenshiro will simply kill his opponents with singular attacks because they were in the way of their boss and him. The feats I have shown imply Kenshiro will treat these mooks in any other way he'd treat other mooks. Without reason to job Kenshiro will come at you with full force and murder you in an instant. Kenshiro has no reason to job.

He says that Kenshiro will not use the technique that Ryuken used against Raoh "Because he doesn't know it". He says that because he doesn't know anything of the series other than cursory knowledge. Kenshiro is the Grand Master of the Hokuto Shinken. He knows all it's techniques and he knows the ultimate stance with the most powerful techniques. He was chosen by Ryuken himself to be the successor of the Hokuto Shinken and the inheritor of the secrets. He says that Kenshiro doesn't know this technique and every bit of context, lore, and what defines Kenshiro as a person says he will know this technique.

My opponent knows Kenshiro's aura will end his team without trouble. It's strong enough to knock out everyone here considering my opponent failed to give durability feats. It's strong enough to dissipate the range attacks of either Texas Twister or Firebird. My opponent gave no proof of the way Kenshiro fights other than saying "Well he's only used them three times". My opponent needs to provide evidence to claims like this and he has not done so.

It's clear why my opponent would want these abilities to be stripped away from Kenshiro. They overpower the two most critical aspects of his argument. With Aura Kenshiro can make his opponent's team useless or else he wouldn't be arguing so hard to get it removed. Though, I will say, if he wants to get my aura removed because Kenshiro only uses it when it's necessary, I'd like to get my opponent's argument saying he will not use it. He didn't provide any evidence other than his own word saying Kenshiro wouldn't use it.

My Opponent

Now, I know it's against the rules to add an argument into the conclusion. So I will instead just ask once again for the whole world to see.

Are the Rangers killers? I have yet to see a single scan where they end up killing their opponent right off the bat in this manner. My opponent ignored this question each time I asked him this and I did so with each of my rounds. This makes me believe no, they will not try to insta-kill Kenshiro where as Kenshiro has shown he will people the moment he meets them with no question. So while he may claim my Aura argument isn't valid, at least I have defended mine. My opponent simply opted to ignore me when I asked him if they would end up killing Kenshiro. He has no proof of this, so I say his arguments that Phantom Rider will outright kill Kenshiro on the first shot are bunk.

Conclusion

Close range. Long range. Medium range. It doesn't really matter. Kenshiro dominates them in whatever position that he is in. The Rangers need to hope for a miracle in order to kill Kenshiro at a range and that miracle is them landing hits off on Kenshiro despite showing neither the capacity or ability to.

I have shown that Kenshiro can counter everything that my opponents could throw at him. I have shown that Kenshiro could instantly kill them the moment he gets within range with...literally anything at his disposal. I have shown that he can cross the distance easily while avoiding himself getting shot in a lethal area. I've shown that anything less than a lethal shot is going to get them all killed. I have shown that Kenshiro has access to techniques that will more easily allow him to close the distance. I have shown in great detail that at best my opponents can hope for a 1/10 victory, maybe a 2/10 victory if we're being real generous. The others Kenshiro just beats out their ranged attacks, dodges their bullets, and plants his fist through their skulls.

In short, this is what my opponents will look like if they try to fuck with Kenshiro.

Horse Conclusion

Phantom Rider's horse sucks. It's just some normal sized white horse. Kenshiro meanwhile has a giant black horse the size of an elephant.

[u/TexasFactsBot → u/fj668]

Speaking of Texas, did y'all know that we get the term "maverick" from Samual Maverick, a Texan politician who was the 108th mayor of San Antonio?

[u/fj668 → u/TexasFactsBot]

Did y'all know that The Hokuto Shinken is so great and powerful that apart from times of constant war and civil unrest the art is banned as a fist of death and thus is not allowed to be practiced?