r/whowouldwin • u/Verlux • Oct 15 '18
Special The Great Debate Season 6 Round 2
POSSIBLY IMPORTANT INFORMATION:
The first named combatant's team spawns in Reception; second named combatant has their team spawn in House Entrance(the person whose name is pinged first in each comment is first named combatant). This might factor into debates so plan accordingly.
Second Bit Of Important Info:
For Out of Tier requests, simply ping myself and/or Chainsaw__Monkey and state your case for why you believe someone's combatant is out of tier, then proceed with the debate as per normal. We will evaluate that request individual of the debate itself and make our decision in judgments.
Rules
Battle Rules
Speed is not to be equalized in any respect for this Season of the Great Debate. A character's provable speed feats are what they will be entered and argued as.
Battleground: The Great Debate arena has traveled across fiction, from a coliseum, to the Mines of Moria, to Asgard herself. Now, however, we take a leap to a new medium: Welcome to Skyscraper. A two-tiered enclosed arena affording smart combatants an easy out for stealth while also optimizing close quarters combat should persons choose to take that route, Skyscraper brings the Great Debate arena to the world of the digital, replacing two teams vying for a singular objective with six (or two) brutal warriors fighting for dominance of debate. Combatants start opposite each other, one Debate team in Reception and the other in House Entrance in full view of each other, facing each other at a distance of 12 meters and in a line spaced 2 meters apart from their allies. Every combatant starts each round being 'teleported' into the arena, knowing full well whomever they face down needs to die or be incapacitated in order for they themselves to advance and win and will do so. All combatants begin without any weapons drawn or abilities active, hands idle at their sides, weapons holstered, and the moment they teleport in they can begin combat. All combatants are in-character for the tourney itself, and importantly all combatants have an accessible HUD (that interferes none at all with their vision and cannot be interfered with via any means, magical technological or otherwise) that displays a layout of Skyscraper's map. Of special note: the garden area is enclosed only by a waist high fence, and a perilous plunge over the side means a 25 storeys drop, and failure to survive the drop or get back on top of Skyscraper in under 10 seconds means Disqualification for that unfortunate combatant.
Submission Rules
- Tier: Must be able to win an unlikely victory, draw/near draw, or likely victory against Nightwing in the conditions outlined above. All entrants will be bloodlusted against Nightwing, meaning they will act fully rationally and put down their opponent in the quickest, most efficient manner possible regardless of morality, utilizing any and all possible techniques/tactics/attacks if necessary. The bloodlust does not give any foreknowledge of Nightwing or his capabilities. Nightwing will be spawning in Reception for Tribunal.
Debate Rules
- Rounds will last 4-5 days, hopefully from Monday until Thursday or Friday of each week of the tourney; there is a 48 hour time limit both on starting (we do not care who starts, you and your opponent can figure that out) AND on responses, AND ADDITIONALLY each user MUST get in two responses or else be disqualified. If one user waits until the very last minute to force this rule to DQ their opponent without any forewarning to their opponents or the tournament supervisors, they will be removed from this tournament, no exceptions.
Current Brackets and Match Style
Brackets Here
Since last match was 3v3 team melee, this round shall be:
1v1 Individual Matches
Round 2 Ends Friday October 19th, 11:59 EST
Format for each round: both respondents get Intro + 1st Response, then 2nd response, then a 3rd response and closing statement individual of one another that can be posted any time after both 3rd responses are complete. EACH RESPONSE MUST BE NO LONGER THAN TWO 10,000 CHARACTER REDDIT COMMENTS LONG.
Rounds will either be a full 3v3 Team Match, or 1v1 single matches. 1v1 matches are randomized based on sign up order via an internet list randomizer. Match format will switch every round, with Team Matches always followed by single matches, and vice versa. First Round will be determined by coin flip, and as it is Team Melee, next shall be 1v1, and so on and so forth.
Randomization is as follows:
| First Debater's Roster Order | Second Debater's Roster Order |
|---|---|
| 1 | 3 |
| 2 | 2 |
| 3 | 1 |
Ergo, your first vs their third, your second v their second, your third vs their first, determined by Tribunal listed order for characters. I have posted the fights AS THEY SHOULD HAPPEN in your comments. For instance, kirbin24 and joseph stalin are having Imai Cosmo and Poison Ivy fight, since Ivy was Joe's third submitted character. I have already randomized for you. Do not re-randomize again.
Links to:
As a special note, since I'm posting this near-on-the-dot as Monday starts, CST, I'll grant an additional 8 hours on the 48 hour rule in the first response for fairness sake.
1
u/Ame-no-nobuko Oct 18 '18 edited Oct 18 '18
Response 2 Pt 1
Intro:
My opponent uses out of context scans, and fails to reject my anti-feats and provide evidence that any of his characters are even close as fast as mine.
First of all I would like to state that per /u/Verlux scans that aren't in the RT and that significantly deviate from it can't be used. This applies to all of Deadpool's strength feats linked for example, or his sword feats. If my opponent can't use feats from the RT provided then thats tough luck.
Deadpool OOT request
/u/Verlux /u/Chainsaw__monkey My opponent has claimed that Deadpool scales to the likes of this feat and can take hits from S tiers. The reaction time inferred in that Typhoid feat is as fast if not faster than Nightwing, and as I've shown/said by Dick Azrael is stronger than him. Azrael has more gear than tourney Dick and is more durable than him, especially in piercing resistance (which my opponent said quote "Richard does not have any piercing resistant feat"). If my opponent thinks that Deadpool is as fast as Dick (if not faster), that his knives cut him and that it would take a S tier striking him to hurt him then clearly my opponent is running Deadpool as massively OOT
Azrael vs. Deadpool
Speed
Bullets
Anti-Feat(AF) 1
Deadpool literally says he has to fight the cops because they can't kill him/he has to stick to his plan. Additionally Deadpool didn't want to go down easy, he wanted to go down fighting as shown by the fact that he called out an assassination attempt on himself. During said assasination attempt he fought back hard enough that Taskmaster and Bullseye didn't realize he wanted to die until he said as much. Both of them have a long history with him and Taskmaster can copy fighting styles, so him not knowing indicates Deadpool is trying.
AF 2.1,.2
First of all him dodging doesn't make it less of a fight and he clearly was willing to engage her in a fight even if the purpose was to just talk. Second of all none of this changes the fact that Hill tagged him repeatedly in their fight, and Hill isn't a bullet timer
He also explicetly hates getting shot
AF 3
If by fight you mean surprise attack one, not even get hit by 3 of them and blow up a few more. The only injury he got here was from falling a few dozen meters and he explicetly healed from that. Also as shown in the the last scan and the scan in question he flew from Hoover Dam to San Onofre between the last fight and the anti-feat. Thats 241 miles/a few minutes (at mach 10). Plenty of time to recover from 0 visual injuries or stated
Also Abraham Lincoln shot him twice
AF 4
Punisher legit has a single bullet timing feat in his RT, calling him bullet timing is wrong.
Additionally these are far from the only anti-feats Deadpool has straight up failed to react to bullets at all, got shot on the way to save his kid (literally your stipulation to make him serious), Punisher shot him in the knees in a middle of a fairly heated fight (as Punisher had been keeping Deadpool a prisoner), Deadpool who says he's in his "bullet timing mode" fails to dodge bullets, Deadpool also states he hates getting shot, even though he does and gets shot by a target and is clearly worked up about it.
Most importantly one of the arguments my opponent uses against my anti-feats is that Deadpool isn't serious. Outside of Despicable Deadpool one of the most serious times for Deadpool was his attack on Ultimatum for attacking his family (the same stipulation my opponent has used to make DP serious. Despite this Deadpool still gets shot in that fight multiple times.
With both this and the other scan I showed earlier, its pretty clear that a serious Deadpool still gets tagged
Sub-Sonic
AF 1,2
I have already contextualized this fight in the AF in the bullet AF 1 section. Additionally in the first sub-sonic anti-feat its incredibly evident that Deadpool is pissed off about getting shot
AF 3.1-3.3
This takes place in Despicable Deadpool #299. Deadpool did not want to be captured here as doing so would ruin his plan to blackmail Cap into reviving Preston, so he clearly has a high degree of investment. Deadpool is also incredibly serious in this arc and explicetly says he would like to shoot Clint. So yes he does want to hurt at least one of them.
AF 4, 5
Note my opponent doesn't reject these. Also note that for context Butler (who these people work for), has been tranqing Deadpool in a similar manner regularly for years, so while it only occurs on panel twice, per canon Deadpool has failed to dodge tranq darts dozens of times.
AF 6
It is still an anti-feat, as dodging bounced bolts while saving your GF should be easy, but perhaps its more of a movement speed AF than a reaction
Opponent's Feats
This isn't bullet timing. It could just as easily be aim dodging
Deadpool doesn't even move in this one, its clearly a miss
Again, this could just as easily be aim dodging
This isn't a bullet and its speed is unknown, the feat is near useless
Daken literally gets shot in this, and DP being faster is inconsistent
Everyone and their mother have done this to Cap. Nick Fury and Black Widow both have dodged it
A. Deadpool has no FTE feats in his RT (so this feat isn't allowed as you added it)
B. FTE is more movement speed than reaction
Comment A also applies to the Typhoid Mary (as this is way faster than any other feat DP has), same with at least the Shatterstar feat
Please use that then, because so far all of his half decent feats are from you
Azrael's AF
She's fast enough to blitz Batman and is constantly described as faster than Batman. Being ~at her speed isn't an anti-feat
This purposefully removes the key context that Corrosive man snuck up on Azrael and tackled him first and his armor is damaged. Azrael's powers only work when his costume is on and looks a very specific way, at least in this era
Azrael was being hit a mini gun being fired by one of the best marksmen in DC.
You mean a cyborg who also amped by power armor? This seems like pretty misleading cropping
Azrael doesn't even try to dodge
Durability
See my top comment on the validity of using feats not in the RT. It doesn't matter if they are OOT or not, just if they are better than the submitted RT
Catwoman never improved her gear in that time period
Azrael improved his armor twice, once after your scan. Your anti-feat occurs in January, my feat (Batman 504) occurs in February. Its not applicable to the armor I am using.
Deadpool's head weakness
You linked three feats of him being not being KO'd. I linked four of him being KO'd and more of getting hit in the head hurting him. Here's another one.
Gear
Good thing Wade isn't a bullet timer
This scan doesn't prove what my opponent says
Blade was also FTE to him in the very scan you linked. Also again, both these feats aren't in the RT
Slade v. Katana
Speed
AF 1
Its from Deathstroke (2011)
AF 2
DS wasn't familiar with the Ikon suit or its full capabilities at the time
AF 3
DS was already in front of Rose compared to the attackers
AF 4
Being shot literally lost him his objective. Unless you are arguing DS likes to be a poor mercenary this argument is nonsensical
AF 5
As long as Slade is wearing those glasses he can see
AF 6
Fair enough on this one, but DS has plenty more anti-feats
Lawman shot him, an old lady shoots him multiple times and DS shot him when his aim was fucked up and he was weaker than usual.
I provided proof that Katana can run at 199 MPH
This is the classic move thats done in all movies, its not a good feat. Also Explosions move at like mach 11, if you think DS can react to something that fast than he's OOT
It doesn't matter how many vines she grows? All that multiple vines proves is that Batman is stronger than Katana, which I have never argued against.