r/whowouldwin • u/Verlux • Mar 11 '19
Event The Great Debate Season 7 Round 2!!!
Rules
Out of Tier Rules
- For Out of Tier requests, simply ping myself and/or Chainsaw__Monkey and state your case for why you believe someone's combatant is out of tier, then proceed with the debate as per normal. We will evaluate that request individual of the debate itself and make our decision in judgments. A short defense of the OOT is acceptable, a prolonged debate over it will be outright ignored
Battle Rules
Speed is to be equalized to a base of 50 m/s combat and movement speed, with their reactions scaled down/up relatively. Speed boosts via abilities, however, are indeed allowed to make one surpass this base speed threshold. Projectile speed maintains relative velocity compared to the combatant it originates from; a human scaled up to this speed firing a gun means their bullet moves as fast to a person moving 50 m/s as a bullet does to us as normal humans.
Battleground: The Great Debate arena has traveled across fiction, from a coliseum, to the Mines of Moria, to Asgard herself. Now, however, we bring the Great Debate to the real world: Enjoy destroying parts of the Panama Canal. A multiple-kilometer-long canal through which much trade and cargo moves via freight boat, the Canal consists of a series of locks which are 320 meters long, 33 meters in width, and 41 meters deep. The battlefield itself will be 3 locks long, and an additional 100 meters width extending beyond the locks' width. Each lock will be filled to the brim with ocean water, and contain a 50 meter long, 20 meter wide, 10 meter tall battleship (with no armaments of any sort, yet it has full oil and fuel) in the exact center of the lock. Combatants start opposite each other, with either team opposite the middlemost lock of the battlefield, facing each other from across the lock just 10 meters to the left of the battleship in it, standing 5 meters back from the lock and in a line spaced 2 meters apart from their allies. Every combatant starts each round being 'teleported' into the arena, knowing full well whomever they face down needs to die or be incapacitated in order for they themselves to advance and win and will do so, and with knowledge of their allies' weapons and abilities. All combatants begin without any weapons drawn or abilities active, hands idle at their sides, weapons holstered, and the moment they teleport in they can begin combat. All combatants are in-character for the tourney itself. Of special note: the edge of the arena consists of a thick wall of unobtanium, a non-magnetic, non-conducting alloy with infinite density that is impossible to manipulate or harm and exists outside the laws of physics, coming to a dome that covers the entire arena. Contestants slammed into it will indeed be harmed by the impact, but suffer no drawbacks from the infinite density.
Submission Rules
- Tier: Must be able to win an unlikely victory, draw/near draw, or likely victory against Neo in the conditions outlined above. All entrants will be bloodlusted against Neo, meaning they will act fully rationally and put down their opponent in the quickest, most efficient manner possible regardless of morality, utilizing any and all possible techniques/tactics/attacks if necessary. The bloodlust does not give any foreknowledge of Neo or his capabilities.
Debate Rules
Rounds will last 4-5 days, hopefully from Monday until Thursday or Friday of each week of the tourney; there is a 48 hour time limit both on starting (we do not care who starts, you and your opponent can figure that out) AND on responses, AND ADDITIONALLY each user MUST get in two responses or else be disqualified. If one user waits until the very last minute to force this rule to DQ their opponent without any forewarning to their opponents or the tournament supervisors, they will be removed from this tournament, no exceptions.
Format for each round: both respondents get Intro + 1st Response, then 2nd response, then a 3rd response and closing statement individual of one another that can be posted any time after both 3rd responses are complete. EACH RESPONSE MUST BE NO LONGER THAN THREE REDDIT COMMENTS LONG WITH A HARD CAP OF 25,000 CHARACTERS SPLIT BETWEEN THE THREE.
Rounds will either be a full 3v3 Team Match, or 1v1 single matches. 1v1 matches are determined by randomization. Match format will switch every round, with Team Matches always followed by single matches, and vice versa. First Round will be determined by coin flip.
Brackets Here
Last round was 3v3, thus this round shall be:
1v1 Individual Fights
Round 2 Ends Friday March 15th, 23:59 CST
Format for each round: both respondents get Intro + 1st Response, then 2nd response, then a 3rd response and closing statement individual of one another that can be posted any time after both 3rd responses are complete. EACH RESPONSE MUST BE NO LONGER THAN THREE REDDIT COMMENTS LONG WITH A HARD CAP OF 25,000 CHARACTERS SPLIT BETWEEN THE THREE.
Rounds will either be a full 3v3 Team Match, or 1v1 single matches. 1v1 matches are randomized based on sign up order via an internet list randomizer. Match format will switch every round, with Team Matches always followed by single matches, and vice versa. First Round will be determined by coin flip, and as it is 3v3s, next shall be 1v1, and so on and so forth.
Randomization is as follows: Taking from sign-up order:
- 1st Combatant vs 3rd Combatant
- 2nd Combatant vs 1st Combatant
- 3rd Combatant vs 2nd Combatant
1
u/HighSlayerRalton Mar 14 '19
Response 2 Part 1 of 2
Rebuttals
Kazuma's Steal is tied to his extraoridnarily high Luck stat. He tends to Steal panties from women because they're the best thing for him to steal, due to his love of panties, and one occasion where they give him leverage over someone trying to scam him. He's entirely capable of stealing something else from a woman if it would be luckier for him.
Used in combat, he steals what his plans rely on, like Mitsurugi's magic sword (which he is reliant on in the same way as Orihime is reliant of her paraphenalia), Beldia's head (after he tricks him into separating it from his main body's magic resistance), or even the wings of flying cabbages.
Once they're awoken. Has she any feats of awakening them at range?
Even if she did, they'd be easily destroyed in Kazaum's possession, having nothing but durability anti-feats, too far from Orihime to defend her, and susceptible to Kazuma's sealing talisman rendering them innate. And Orihime wouldn't know what was going on at first, preventing her from reacting before Kazuma takes advantage of the situation.
Wow, she... began to create a defensive shield after wondering if doing so wouldn't seem too aggressive. This in no way shows that her personality 180°d.
Is this a human opponent?
This is clearly just being used as a deterrent, and she's got the motivation here of doing it so she can continue to heal someone—her romantic interest, in fact. Mildly hurting someone so she can heal someone shows how much she cares about healing, if anything.
Certainly, she didn't whip out Koten Zanshun and murder this guy, which is what she'd have to do against Kazuma, as it's her only truly effective means of attack.
Kazuma being able to charge up his arrows to shoot through walls is a game mechanic, yes. Why does this matter?
It is also an ability of his, yes. Why does this matter?
Different mediums; same canon.
Kazuma can tank slashes from Darkness, who can cut through boulders with air pressure.
That monster is her brother, who literally stops mid-bite because of the empathy she's showing him.
Kazuma can, at least briefly, grapple with Darkness and force her to the ground. Darkness can block a large Golem that is itself strong enough to smash a large pillar, and her clash with Beldia creates a crater. Kazuma's physicals are considerably beyond Orihime, who's a fairly normal human.
Orihime saying that her friend says she thinks she could make first dan doesn't make her equivalent to a black belt:
A) Orihime has to be remembering and interpreting correctly.
B) The friend has to be capable of making an accurate assessment.
C) The friend can't be using hyperbole, or just be being nice.
D) The friend has to be saying that Orihime could make first dan now, rather than make one in the future in general.
Besides, 1st Dan is literally the beginner grade.
She sneak attacks two Soul Reapers, who train in swordsmanship rather than martial arts, and who can vary vastly in terms of skill. Further, the two are from 12th Division, which is made an R&D-focused department rather than a combat-focused one, which has shitty Reapers like this guy who repeatedly failed the entrance test. Its staff are very expendable, to the point of being used as human bombs.
Kazuma's Lurks still screws Orihime over in terms of trying to get close to him, and if did he has his aforementoned sword, an Create Water, alongside numerous other attacks that can kill or incapacitate Orihime immediately[2][3]
Source? Being able to manipulate metal down to the atomic level isn't the same as having a power that works because of atoms.
The scan doesn't show this. Nothing indicates that "spiritual particles" are notably different beyond being able to exist in the spirit world. Certainly, nothing suggests an immunity to metal manipulation.
Souls are used in the creation of Asauchi, but that doesn't preclude Zanpakuto being made of metal. Nothing says they can't be both metal and spiritual, the same way everything in Soul Society's world are both a normal thing and created from spiritual such-and-such.
Zanpakuto's carry the qualities of metal
If by "tank" you mean "get cut through like a knife through butter even with his Zanpakuto blocking it, then collapse a few pages later after a second slash" then, yeah, he totally tanks it.
His Zanpakuto-reliant strength. And even that would be of no use, as he's still vastly less manoeuvrable than Iron Butterfly in the air.
What feats does Leone have for stealth? She also wasn't amped by stealth tech like Panther is.
She baited out a second assassin by threatening the first then dodging back, and was able to note Tatsumi when he abandoned being stealthy to rescue her.
It doesn't look like he's invisible here, and even if he were he is yet again not trying to be stealthy and already known to be there by Esdeath.
Esdeath's sensing Tatsumi is most likely facilitated by him radiating a presence, one specifically identifiable as his own, in fact. Someone like Akame, who can hide their prescence[2] has no trouble. This "presence" is a setting-specific detail; Black Panther doesn't radiate such. Ergo, she cannot sense him while stealthed.
Even if she was argued to be hearing Tatsumi, Panther has the aforementioned sound-nullification. His stealth is on a totally different level to Tatsumi.
Encapsulation