r/whowouldwin • u/Verlux • Mar 11 '19
Event The Great Debate Season 7 Round 2!!!
Rules
Out of Tier Rules
- For Out of Tier requests, simply ping myself and/or Chainsaw__Monkey and state your case for why you believe someone's combatant is out of tier, then proceed with the debate as per normal. We will evaluate that request individual of the debate itself and make our decision in judgments. A short defense of the OOT is acceptable, a prolonged debate over it will be outright ignored
Battle Rules
Speed is to be equalized to a base of 50 m/s combat and movement speed, with their reactions scaled down/up relatively. Speed boosts via abilities, however, are indeed allowed to make one surpass this base speed threshold. Projectile speed maintains relative velocity compared to the combatant it originates from; a human scaled up to this speed firing a gun means their bullet moves as fast to a person moving 50 m/s as a bullet does to us as normal humans.
Battleground: The Great Debate arena has traveled across fiction, from a coliseum, to the Mines of Moria, to Asgard herself. Now, however, we bring the Great Debate to the real world: Enjoy destroying parts of the Panama Canal. A multiple-kilometer-long canal through which much trade and cargo moves via freight boat, the Canal consists of a series of locks which are 320 meters long, 33 meters in width, and 41 meters deep. The battlefield itself will be 3 locks long, and an additional 100 meters width extending beyond the locks' width. Each lock will be filled to the brim with ocean water, and contain a 50 meter long, 20 meter wide, 10 meter tall battleship (with no armaments of any sort, yet it has full oil and fuel) in the exact center of the lock. Combatants start opposite each other, with either team opposite the middlemost lock of the battlefield, facing each other from across the lock just 10 meters to the left of the battleship in it, standing 5 meters back from the lock and in a line spaced 2 meters apart from their allies. Every combatant starts each round being 'teleported' into the arena, knowing full well whomever they face down needs to die or be incapacitated in order for they themselves to advance and win and will do so, and with knowledge of their allies' weapons and abilities. All combatants begin without any weapons drawn or abilities active, hands idle at their sides, weapons holstered, and the moment they teleport in they can begin combat. All combatants are in-character for the tourney itself. Of special note: the edge of the arena consists of a thick wall of unobtanium, a non-magnetic, non-conducting alloy with infinite density that is impossible to manipulate or harm and exists outside the laws of physics, coming to a dome that covers the entire arena. Contestants slammed into it will indeed be harmed by the impact, but suffer no drawbacks from the infinite density.
Submission Rules
- Tier: Must be able to win an unlikely victory, draw/near draw, or likely victory against Neo in the conditions outlined above. All entrants will be bloodlusted against Neo, meaning they will act fully rationally and put down their opponent in the quickest, most efficient manner possible regardless of morality, utilizing any and all possible techniques/tactics/attacks if necessary. The bloodlust does not give any foreknowledge of Neo or his capabilities.
Debate Rules
Rounds will last 4-5 days, hopefully from Monday until Thursday or Friday of each week of the tourney; there is a 48 hour time limit both on starting (we do not care who starts, you and your opponent can figure that out) AND on responses, AND ADDITIONALLY each user MUST get in two responses or else be disqualified. If one user waits until the very last minute to force this rule to DQ their opponent without any forewarning to their opponents or the tournament supervisors, they will be removed from this tournament, no exceptions.
Format for each round: both respondents get Intro + 1st Response, then 2nd response, then a 3rd response and closing statement individual of one another that can be posted any time after both 3rd responses are complete. EACH RESPONSE MUST BE NO LONGER THAN THREE REDDIT COMMENTS LONG WITH A HARD CAP OF 25,000 CHARACTERS SPLIT BETWEEN THE THREE.
Rounds will either be a full 3v3 Team Match, or 1v1 single matches. 1v1 matches are determined by randomization. Match format will switch every round, with Team Matches always followed by single matches, and vice versa. First Round will be determined by coin flip.
Brackets Here
Last round was 3v3, thus this round shall be:
1v1 Individual Fights
Round 2 Ends Friday March 15th, 23:59 CST
Format for each round: both respondents get Intro + 1st Response, then 2nd response, then a 3rd response and closing statement individual of one another that can be posted any time after both 3rd responses are complete. EACH RESPONSE MUST BE NO LONGER THAN THREE REDDIT COMMENTS LONG WITH A HARD CAP OF 25,000 CHARACTERS SPLIT BETWEEN THE THREE.
Rounds will either be a full 3v3 Team Match, or 1v1 single matches. 1v1 matches are randomized based on sign up order via an internet list randomizer. Match format will switch every round, with Team Matches always followed by single matches, and vice versa. First Round will be determined by coin flip, and as it is 3v3s, next shall be 1v1, and so on and so forth.
Randomization is as follows: Taking from sign-up order:
- 1st Combatant vs 3rd Combatant
- 2nd Combatant vs 1st Combatant
- 3rd Combatant vs 2nd Combatant
1
u/xWolfpaladin Mar 16 '19 edited Mar 18 '19
Percy Jackson vs Classic X-O
Rebuttals
I stated the opposite.
When I said that X-O doesn't have the feats to be pierced by riptide, it's because Riptide is a sharp, durable blade, that is hitting with a lot of force, not because I was assuming he's weak to piercing.
My opponent seems to be misunderstanding my point here. My point is not that these are some hyper-durable chains. Chains being broken by rockets isn't an antifeat for chains.
Secondly, failing to break a celestial bronze mesh isn't an antifeat, a mesh is better at deflecting slashing attacks . This isn't "massively inconsistent" as my opponent claims.
My opponent links this for Nikai not being made out of solid metal, & I have no idea why. They're metal robots, obviously they have parts that can move. My opponent also claims that the fact that "high grade" celestial bronze exists makes all feats for it invalid, but normal metal also comes in varying grades. Conveniently, the metal that Percy scales to does have feats. The metal wreathes that they wear punch through brick walls + marble when they throw them. The fact that she was going to catch with her fingers what was capable of punching through a brick wall & a marble column without stopping means she is clearly at least comparable to high grade real metals.
My point is that when an unamped Percy throws a blade, with comparatively very little force, the blade is still sharp enough to pierce thick chains that are capable of suspending a lot of weight, & base Percy can bisect beings made of metal. The Percy I am using is far stronger, & striking directly. Normally, to determine if a sharp blade with a lot of force could pierce a character, you look at their piercing feats. X-O has not demonstrated the ability to not be pierced by a very sharp blade with a lot of force. Anything you are stating about X-O's piercing durability is an unknown.
Firstly, sword fighting is more effective against someone without a sword, not less.
Percy is a combat savant, but is also a 17 y/o fighting what looks like alien Iron Man. He knows which way X-O is striking before & as X-O does it, he knows that he's trying to kill him, he's fought people with guns & magic, he'd safely get out of the way. I should also mention that my opponent has not provided any evidence for the rate at which X-O reacts, the speed of his beams is useless, their speed is unknown.
The suit presumably has 360 vision, but the second feat has him targeting & firing on a man standing still, but there's nothing suggesting it's auto targeting. One scan saying "Target, fire" is not evidence that he has auto-aim.
My opponent's point here shows that he is missing the context that I attempted to provide by stating things like "This is the first time Percy fought demigods." I'm going to be relinking excerpts from this passage.
My opponent is ignoring context to make my feat worse, context that he knows, because he already addressed the fact that the children were able to wound Percy.
Conclusion
The idea that Percy is a bullet timer at this point in the story is laughable. Each child at this point could beat a dry Percy in a 1v1. Percy with fresh water beats 5 of them at the same time.
Point 1 - Percy can pierce X-O.
Percy already easily pierces metal, receives a large strength amp, & is using a super sharp, super durable blade. The burden of proof is on my opponent, but there's no proof to show.
Additionally, based on the information present in my opponent's RT, the suit can be pierced by an old sword salvaged from ruins . Percy's sword is superior to a dull sword wielded by a human.
Point 2 - Percy is extremely skilled.
I am going to reiterate my previous points with more depth.
Ares is a super strong, immortal god, who has been fighting for eternity.
Ares, even while toying with Percy, is as fast or faster, & has a blade with several feet longer reach.
Percy is 12 year old as of this point, with little training at all. The Percy I'm running is 17, has been training for years, & is just generally incredibly superior to himself as a younger child.
My opponent also failed to address the Luke feat, so I'm going to go over that again. Here's the fight.
Percy then gets water, precisely, he gets one cup of fresh water. The Percy I'm using is constantly being doused in of gallons of saltwater due to his hurricane.
Percy is then able to disarm the teenager, the best swordsman in the past 300 years, on his first day of practice, using a sword that is poorly balanced, with less of an amp than the Percy I am using. When Percy is dry again, Luke stomps him without trying.
Secondly, my opponent has not addressed Percy's other feats, such as using fighting styles that X-O has no knowledge of, or the fact that X-O is very untrained compared to Percy and has no good skill feats.
Additionally, Percy is able to land hits on Kronos, who has all of the skill (if not way more) than Luke, the best swordsman in the past 300 years, despite Kronos being massively stronger and also faster than Percy to the point where Percy fighting Kronos feels like fighting 100 people at once.
In short
Dry 12 year old Percy is inferior to 1 child of Ares. Compared to when Percy hitting a fresh water creek gives him the speed & skill to effortlessly beat 5 of them at the same time.
Dry 12 year old Percy is massively inferior to Luke Castellan, the best swordsman in 300 years. Compared to when Percy with 1 cup of freshwater has the speed & skill to disarm him, with a sword that isn't properly balanced for him.
The Percy I'm using has the Curse of Achilles, is in seawater, not freshwater, has as much access to it as he needs, & is constantly having his stamina replenished by steady access to water, is 17 years old & has been training since he was 12.
X-O in comparison has no feats of fighting an enemy who can read his movements & no skill feats. There is no possible way for X-O to win this fight. Percy will dodge X-O's beams as he raises his arm, close the distance, & incapacitate him with his sword. X-O is a book that Percy has already read, Percy is ludicrously more skilled, my opponent has not provided evidence to the contrary, the scrutiny of my feats falls short when examining the context behind them.
Conclusion
If dry Percy can fight against superior, skilled combatants and land lethal blows, freshwater amped Percy can completely dismantle multiple vastly superior opponents, dry Percy can land hits on skilled people faster than him, then Percy amped with seawater can easily kill a slower combatant with no skill that can be cleanly pierced by Riptide.