Clash of Titans Season 2 Tribunal

[u/KenfromDiscord]

What is a Tribunal?

A Tribunal is a period where everyone is allowed a period to vet through the opposition's picks, and determine whether or not they fit the tier (Unlikely Victory, Draw, Likely Victory against New 52 Superman. If you feel certain things put any other character in the entire tourney out of tier, simply tag the user under the posting of their characters and state what you believe is out of tier, then argue it.

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When Does Tribunal End?

Tribunal ends when all the OOT Characters are removed,and the judges as a whole are satisfied that no single character is blatantly OOT

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What Do I Do If A Judge States I Am Out Of Tier?

Find someone else. The back-up you have is in case you are argued out of tier. You will have until the Tourney starts, and can ping/message any one of the judges, and we will make sure your swap is good.

If you are out of tier, you get precisely one chance to plead a case on your character/s being in-tier before having to swap; if we are saying no on something, we actually are just picking on you.

If you are called out on the last day, we ourselves will hurriedly do our best to make sure your replacement is in-tier.

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Judges

ME

IMade

Kerd

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Sign ups

Hype post

[u/Ame-no-nobuko]

Then it shouldn't need to be stipped. If you can prove the scaling applies, then you should.

Puts the feats front and center and wastes less characters.

The others seemed to think it futile.

Sure, but the Crime Syndicate is made of losers. Johnny Quick is a drug addict who has like no spine. Same with Power Ring. Superwoman just cares about fucking the most powerful man and pissing off Ultraman

PC Supes was beating Ultraman because Ultraman's emotional response to Superwoman left him open, and because Superman was more experienced and skilled. Their physicals are comparable, and it's his strength that the forcefield scales to—strength comparable to TierSetterMan's.

He KO’d/took them out with the last blow. Someone who can’t hurt a planetary tier character and who gets like 4 shorter isn’t in tier.

The Justice League are more skilled, but the powers are the same, including durability.

Nah. Their origins are all fairly different. Only Owlman and Ultraman are similar. They’ve also been beaten by the JL B team with like Aquaman matching Ultraman iirc. I can find the fight later if you want. Also you’ve failed to prove Ultramab is equal to thevtier setter or even comparable.

Also the fight ends with them losing and being ko’d/taken out and doing no damage to Supes. It s similar to the SBP fight, with Ion being Ultraman and Supes being SBP

WW vs Superman

They are only kinda close to the sun. Also he never punches her before then. Just uses heat vision. Also this sane Superman failed to kill Batman right before.

Circe altered Superman. It’s unclear how that impacted him.

Given that his heat vision had to be specified in, I don't know that TierSetterMan has his cold breath.

He doesn’t need it for the feats that his lungs can take that level of cold to be true.

Lose or not, fighting Superboy Prime as well as he did is OoT. Especially when he does so after being exposed to lead, his kryptonite.

PC Superman also fought prime before. He took multiple hits and vaguely hurt Prime. Ion did better, but only marginally. SBP also has had blood drawn by S tiers before. Like a lot of blood

big hole in chest

Like I said piercing. He can KO’d and Superman has done it and he doesn’t heal from that so I don’t see the issue. He’s never godstomped PC Superman just does consistently well against him.

Not in one-hit, but they do decent damage and give Cyborg Superman a notable advantage at range.

They’ve never been insanely beneficial against PC Superman. I don’t see why they’d Be now.

Gaurdians

N52 Gaurdians are weak. Volthoom took out like all of them casually and he’s a planet buster. Sinestro whose not a planet buster killed like half of them, etc.

very different kind of black hole to what the Surfer creates, something "black hole" in name only—and even then he's still weakened from the ordeal months later.

It’s called a black hole and I see no reason to discount it. He is weakened, but that’s before the like multi magnitude strength amp the judges gave him.

They're physiologically different. Different universes, different lore regarding how their bodies work, etc.

N52 Superman is part of PC Superman. Per current DC cannon Supes was split in two in the early 2000s. One was PC, one became n52. Two halves of the same whole. They also have similar histories and their bodies work almost the same.

[u/HighSlayerRalton → u/Ame-no-nobuko]

Sure, but the Crime Syndicate is made of losers.

That wouldn't stop them from trying to bust out of Green Lantern's imprisonment. Johnny Quick seems motivated to escape, and Superwoman and Power Rings conversing shows that they want to escape too, with at least the latter "working on it". After slightly under 24 hours, he says it'll still take another for him to break it.

Someone who can’t hurt a planetary tier character

And what suggests Ultraman can't do that, if he gets to hit them? Ultraman has outright beaten Superman before.

It's also worth noting that Ultraman's power varies based on his access to anti-Kryptonite, which he would have stockpiled in the Green Lantern'ed moon base but perhaps gone without access to for some time when he lost to Superman.

On Superman's end, he's not quite amped, but he is fuelled by an unnatural rage.

who gets like 4 shorter

Superman bursts through his base, then he gets charged, kidney-punched, swallows water, is hit with a barrage of pressure-jabs, is punched, and finally thrown into Superwoman. That's a decent number of attacks, with the pressure jabs quite notable.

They’ve also been beaten by the JL B team with like Aquaman matching Ultraman iirc

I've just being going through their comics and, though I wasn't specifically looking out for this, I feel like I would recall it. There is a scene where Aquaman and Martian Manhunter intervene with Ultraman and Superwoman's efforts in Washington, but it's Martian Manhunter who beats Ultraman—and even then, this was when the Positive Matter universe enforced a rule that meant good always won, and the Crim Syndicate couldn't succeed there.

Also he never punches her before then.

He chokes her, too, then goes on to attack her more. She isn't "on her ass" from a "single hit from PC Superman". She's maybe a little weaker, but she's very close.

Circe altered Superman. It’s unclear how that impacted him.

Can you substantiate it having weakened him?
On a counter-note; Superman is raging at Wonder Woman and going all-out.

He doesn’t need it for the feats that his lungs can take that level of cold to be true.

You mean feats in space?
I'm willing to buy Supes' dealing with being covered in ice by just breaking out before he loses too much body heat.

PC Superman also fought prime before. He took multiple hits and vaguely hurt Prime

To which fight are you referring?

Ion did better, but only marginally

I've never seen Superman do anywhere near as well. He puts up a lengthy fight, in spite of being lead-poisoned early on.

SBP also has had blood drawn by S tiers before

Look at the beating he takes in the same arc while almost depowered. Look at all those characters, including Post-Crisis Superman. Look at this shit. There are Guardians of the Universe weighing in. Black Adam tickles him. He one-shots Martian Manhunter and later Power Girl. That feat of getting blood drawn is a low-level outlier and it's still crazy.
Superboy Prime is so out-of-tier it hurts.

It’s called a black hole

A lot of things in fiction are called "black holes". The one Superman enters is markedly different from the one Surfer creates. It takes them to a place of shredded universes, and has no affect on the nearby Earth. Not an actual black hole at all.

And, at the time, Superman was massively amped by Brainiac's stolen power, and had the Doomsday virus. Heck, he created that black hole in the first place.

N52 Superman is part of PC Superman. Per current DC cannon Supes was split in two in the early 2000s. One was PC, one became n52. Two halves of the same whole.

In a cosmic sense. Not a physical, physiological sense. Explanations of their biology are different, and their powers have some differences.

[u/Ame-no-nobuko → u/HighSlayerRalton]

That wouldn't stop them from trying to bust out of Green Lantern's imprisonment. Johnny Quick seems motivated to escape

Quick can't fly and the hands aren't near the moon's surface

After slightly under 24 hours, he says it'll still take another for him to break it.

Yeah, because he's weak as hell. I don't think Power Ring has a single instance of S tier scaling and certainly not consistent. We also only see Ultraman attacking the barrier

And what suggests Ultraman can't do that, if he gets to hit them? Ultraman has outright beaten Superman before.

You mean the same arc where the Rainbow Raiders beat Johnny and Power Ring II and right after were losing to a group of normal humans, Flash lost to Menagerie, Red Tornado floored like all of them at once.

Ultraman is also dependent on a supply of kryptonite to amp himself and the one who beat Superman had a continuous supply while the one vs Kyle did not.

It's also worth noting that Ultraman's power varies based on his access to anti-Kryptonite, which he would have stockpiled in the Green Lantern'ed moon base but perhaps gone without access to for some time when he lost to Superman.

He explicetly had anti-kryptonite stored in his body via nanotech during that fight. There is also no evidence he was eating the kryptonite during that feat. I also think it was explicit that he had been hitting the barrier non stop

On Superman's end, he's not quite amped, but he is fuelled by an unnatural rage

Thats just means he's not holding back

Superman bursts through his base, then he gets charged, kidney-punched, swallows water, is hit with a barrage of pressure-jabs, is punched, and finally thrown into Superwoman. That's a decent number of attacks, with the pressure jabs quite notable.

Sure, but if he was even close to PC Superman he shouldn't have lost so quickly

I've just being going through their comics and, though I wasn't specifically looking out for this, I feel like I would recall it. There is a scene where Aquaman and Martian Manhunter intervene with Ultraman and Superwoman's efforts in Washington, but it's Martian Manhunter who beats Ultraman—and even then, this was when the Positive Matter universe enforced a rule that meant good always won, and the Crim Syndicate couldn't succeed there.

Good wins in the long term, not the short term necessarily. Ultraman could kill MMH, but then like WW would beat him.

He chokes her, too, then goes on to attack her more. She isn't "on her ass" from a "single hit from PC Superman". She's maybe a little weaker, but she's very close.

AFAIK Superman's grip strength isn't planet busting. She was knocked on her ass and throughout the fight its clear Superman has a notable physical advantage

Can you substantiate it having weakened him?

No, but its clear that his physiology is changed. Its not on me to prove he is as strong as normal

To which fight are you referring?

Infinite Crisis when Superman blitzed prime to Krypton

Look at the beating he takes in the same arc while almost depowered

So looking at this he takes a hit from Superman and is bleeding, a combined hit lays him on his ass and seems to take most of the fight out of him. SBP had been wearing a suit that was pumping solar energy into him until just before the scan you linked. He's getting weaker sure, but so is Superman or Powergirl or Supergirl as its night and they are running out of power

There are Guardians of the Universe weighing in

The Gaurdians are like the most inconsistent people. Like half of their feats is vague hype

Black Adam tickles him

Yeah because he has magic resistance. The scan is fairly clear

He one-shots Martian Manhunter and later Power Girl

He one shotted MMH with heat vision. He one shotted Power Girl with a flying blitz which I don't think he ever used on Prime. Also Power Girl isn't as durable as Superman

A lot of things in fiction are called "black holes". The one Superman enters is markedly different from the one Surfer creates. It takes them to a place of shredded universes, and has no affect on the nearby Earth. Not an actual black hole at all.

It takes him out of the multiverse to the Blood Moon

In a cosmic sense. Not a physical, physiological sense. Explanations of their biology are different, and their powers have some differences.

No in a physical and a cosmic sense

[u/HighSlayerRalton → u/Ame-no-nobuko]

the hands aren't near the moon's surface

The hands don't entirely encircle the moon, so to imprison those within they have to make contact with the moon's surface.

You mean the same arc where the Rainbow Raiders beat Johnny and Power Ring II

Briefly, because they weren't used to how the world worked and were sneak-attacked. They stomped on their second wind.
Regardless, it wouldn't prove them less powerful—less effective overall, but not necessarily for that reason—and even if it did, that would say nothing of Ultraman.

Flash lost to Menagerie

How is that Quick losing to Menagerie? He's quite happily gobbling up her bugs.

Red Tornado floored like all of them at once.

They're only floored when the accidentally release Red Tornado's spirit's winds, that an Amazo with the JL's powers can't overcome.

the one who beat Superman had a continuous supply while the one vs Kyle did not.

They were trapped in a Crime Syndicate base. He should have access to anti-Kryptonite.

I also think it was explicit that he had been hitting the barrier non stop

Even if that were the case, he'd start at full power.

but if he was even close to PC Superman he shouldn't have lost so quickly

I disagree. I think getting hit a solid number of times by someone of comparable strength, swallowing water, and being pressure-jabbed so that your muscles spasm could put someone down.

Good wins in the long term, not the short term necessarily.

Owlman thinks that winning a single battle with the JL int heir world is whole proof that the good-wins effect is gone.

AFAIK Superman's grip strength isn't planet busting

That isn't the point. You're saying she gets one-shot, I'm saying that "a single hit from PC Superman lays her on her ass". I'm saying "no, she takes all this from Superman and keeps going".

She was knocked on her ass and throughout the fight

She "holds back, barely" and dances around him on Earth.

its clear Superman has a notable physical advantage

I agree that Superman has a physical advatange, but it's not a "a single hit from PC Superman lays her on her ass" advatrange. Wonder Woman is close to Superman.

No, but its clear that his physiology is changed. Its not on me to prove he is as strong as normal

Circe says she's given his hate and anger physical form. Nothing suggests he's been weakened.

Infinite Crisis when Superman blitzed prime to Krypton

When you say "He took multiple hits and vaguely hurt Prime", you mean "he was bloodied by one hit, and even with another Superman couldn't hurt Prime until he was depowered.

SBP had been wearing a suit that was pumping solar energy into him until just before the scan you linked

It was busted quite a bit earlier, and even with it undamaged he wasn't at full power.

As soon as he comes into contact with sunlight he overpowers a huge mess of heroes who were holding him down.

so is Superman or Powergirl or Supergirl as its night and they are running out of power

They haven't been exclusively fighting in the night like Superboy Prime has.

The Gaurdians are like the most inconsistent people.

They're consistently way over this tier.

Like half of their feats is vague hype

And the other half is kicking ass above tier, as powerful as they're hyped up to be.

Yeah because he has magic resistance. The scan is fairly clear

He doesn't have magic resistance so much as he can tank it like he can anything else, unlike Superman who is vulnerable to it. He still takse the fore of Black Adam's punches. Black Adam is very powerful.

He one shotted MMH with heat vision

So?

He one shotted Power Girl with a flying blitz which I don't think he ever used on Prime

You mean used on Sodom Yat?
He does, and even if he didn't it's not like that particular attack is especially powerful.

Also Power Girl isn't as durable as Superman

She takes a beating from Kal-L, who scales to both his Silver Age and Post-Crisis counterparts, and is Earth-busting.

One-shotting her is OoT, as is giving a good fight to the one who does it.

It takes him out of the multiverse to the Blood Moon

Which marks it as another of fiction's common pseudo-black holes.

No in a physical and a cosmic sense

PC Supes wasn't physically cut in half. Reality was remade.

[u/Ame-no-nobuko → u/HighSlayerRalton]

Based on Kerd Tribunal is over so guess thats that