r/whowouldwin Apr 05 '21

Event New Debate Tournament: Dual Character Argumentation Undertaking (DCAU) Sign Ups, New Users Welcome

NEW BATTLEBOARDING DEBATE TOURNAMENT, NEW USERS WELCOME: Introducing Dual Character Argumentation Undertaking (DCAU)

What is this?

In the same vein as Great Debate Tournament, Clash of Titans, and Adequate Argument Contest, Dual Character Argumentation Undertaking (DCAU) is the first of a new series of debate tournaments wherein users submit teams of characters and debate amongst each other whose team would be more likely to win a fight.

How Do I Enter?

Comment with a team of three characters (two primary submissions with one backup character) you feel are able to reasonably fight- ranging from an unlikely to a likely victory- our tier setter. Provide a succint justification for their tier status.

The required formatting for doing so is:

Character Series Match Up Stipulations
First Character
Second Character
Third Character/Backup

For people who do not use RES

Character | Series | Match-Up | Stipulations---|---|---|---||||||

Sign ups will last from April 5th to April 16th. In this period of time you are free to alter your characters, stipulations, or anything else. Alterations to sign ups after 4/16 will not be allowed barring judge permission. From April 16th to April 18th, we will review the sign ups and then post the initial round at Monday, April 19th, roughly 00:00 EST.

Of important note: No duplicate characters allowed. First come, first served! This includes same persons but from differing arcs in the same story and alternate universes with no different feats; NO. DUPLICATES.

Who is the Tier Setter?

Say hello to DCAU Superman, here to pound your ass for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. Of note:

  • DCAUMan’s striking power is generally middle to high end building busting, varying based on how much power he is able to put into them.
  • DCAUMan’s lifting is in excess of hundreds of tons, with the ability to surpass these limits by way of flight.
  • DCAUMan is able to fight his physical equals for long periods of time even while heavily damaged.
  • DCAUMan’s speed is equalized to a relatively normal human being physically, with the added ability to fly up to 3-12x faster than he runs.
  • DCAUMan has a ranged attack that has both a concussive force and a heat component.

All entrants will be bloodlusted against the tier setter, meaning they will act fully rationally and put down their opponent in the quickest, most efficient manner possible regardless of morality, utilizing any and all possible techniques/tactics/attacks if necessary. The bloodlust does not give any foreknowledge of the tier setter.

Directly altering characters to fit tier must be kept to a minimum. Directly altering stats is a no go. On the other hand, using a character from an earlier story arc where they're weaker or adding / removing equipment they are shown to use are good. For example, using "Kid Goku from the World Martial Arts Tournament" could be good if he were to fit a hypothetical tier, using "Current Goku with stats nerfed to fit tier" isn't. Alternatively, if someone has equipment that is otherwise good, though has one or two weapons that push them out of tier, removing said gear is fine. Other balance changes are left to Tourney Organizers' discretion to approve / disapprove.

All submitted characters must have a Respect Thread. This is not up for debate; they must have a faithful RT that does not misinterpret the character willfully or leave out information on said character. Of note is the user who created a characters respect thread has first dibs on running that character.

How does this work?

  • Every round will feature a maximum of two characters, with the exception of finals as a 3 vs. 3. Round One is a guaranteed 2 vs. 2, with Round 2 being a guaranteed 1 vs. 1. Expect the subsequent rounds to follow this pattern.
  • Write an introductory response of up to 10K characters detailing why you feel your character/duo is able to beat your opponents, and submit it via reddit to the judges. These will be due 36 hours after a rounds start.
  • Wait for your response to be submitted alongside your competitors, read each others responses, and write up to 25K characters between three comments. These will be due 48 hours after initial responses.
  • At the end of a five day debate period, allow two days for judging. When results are in, the winner will advance to the next round.
  • Extensions will not be granted for the first two rounds and must be agreed upon between parties.
  • Rough Schedule:
    • Round posted Sunday Midnight Est.
    • Introductory 10K response due Tuesday Noon EST.
    • Rebuttal 25K due Thursday Noon EST.
    • Conclusions 25K due Saturday Noon EST.

Where are we fighting?

  • Our arena is the Metropolis Park.
  • Metropolis Park is 5x4 City blocks in size. For our purposes, we will assume this makes the arena roughly 1000ft x 1250ft.
  • The arena is boxed in with a whowouldwinium dome inside a whowouldwinium cube. We assume the highest point of the map reachable is also 1250ft.
  • Opponents start 500ft away from one another in the parks center.

What else should I know?

  • All rounds are single elimination.
  • Your team must be in tier vs. a duo/trio of DCAUMen respectively for team matches.
  • Speed is equalized for this tier. However, a character with the ability to boost their speed from their normal levels maintains that ability, in the same way that DCAU Superman can boost his speed with the aid of flight. Projectile speed maintains relative velocity compared to the reactions of the combatant it originates from.
  • There is not a ranged rule for this tier.
  • If your stipulations for your characters are not easily understandable to outside parties, they are invalid.
  • All combatants are aware of the basics of their allies' combat abilities but are in the blind on their opponents (unless they have canon knowledge of said person via sharing a fictional universe).
  • Every combatant starts each round being 'teleported' into the arena, knowing full well whomever they face down needs to die or be incapacitated in order for they themselves to advance and win and will do so. All combatants begin without any weapons drawn or abilities active, hands idle at their sides, weapons holstered, and the moment they teleport in they can begin combat. All combatants are in-character for the tourney itself.
  • Each user will be granted three "out of tier" requests at the start of the tournament. If you believe your opponent has argued their character as out of tier, I.E. cannot reasonably lose to DCAU Superman as outlined in a bloodlusted match, submit an explanation as to why alongside your response, totalling no more than 2.5K characters (this does not detract from your character count for the response itself). Your opponent then gets a response of equal length to defend their characters tier status. The judges will evaluate these independently of the match itself. Successful out of tiers result in the character in question being removed from the roster and the tournament. Unsuccessful out of tiers detract from the total number of requests you have at the tournaments start. The judges reserve the right to submit our own out of tier requests independent from the users. Don't pull bullshit.

ALTERATIONS FROM HYPE POST, PLEASE READ

  • To reiterate from above, the deadlines for response times are being altered as follows. The purpose of this alteration is to allow each party to have in excess of one full day to write a full, adequate response.
    • R1: 10K Characters MAX due Tuesday, Noon EST.
    • R2: 25K Characters MAX due Thursday, Noon EST.
    • R3: 25K Character MAX due Saturday, Noon EST.

Each 1v1 round will, instead of featuring two characters fighting separate 1v1 fights, feature a singular 1v1 character. Inform the judges prior to your round which of your two characters you would like to use. Users who fail to do this will default to the first character in their sign ups being used in their 1v1. The purpose of this alteration is to prevent a hypothetical situation involving a tie.

Please reach out with any questions or concerns to the judges:

/u/MyNameIsJeffHarrison DCAU Expert

/u/GuyOfEvil The Most Electrifying Man in Debating

/u/Qawsedf234 currently wishing this was Smallville tier

u/IAmNotAChinaBoo Stephanie Meyer in disguise and the guy putting this tourney on

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u/HighSlayerRalton Apr 05 '21 edited Apr 15 '21

Team Green, Mean, and All-Women-Are-Queens

Submissions

Character Source / RT Match‑up Stipulations
1  The Super Adaptoid Bucky Barnes vs the Adaptoid Likely Starts with Captain America/Bucky/Hulk/Thor/Iron Man/War Machine/Vision loadout and Captain America's shield, scaling to canon. • No phasing, and ignore the healing factor in this feat. • Thinks its opponents are its target(s) in lieu of Captain America.
2  Power Girl DC Comics: "It's complicated" Draw Stip this feat, this caption, and this panel. • No Clark Kent/Diana Prince-scaling for Kara's attacks or non-esoteric durability. • Additional feats and important scaling. • Thinks her opponent(s) are robots, and is in civilians clothes.
B  Graviton Marvel Comics: Earth‑616 Unlikely Has normal powers, super-dense body, and is at his best level of mental stability. • No Thor-scaling. • No 'reshaping the world in his image' feat, or internal attacks. • Is in civilian clothes.

Scaling

Match-ups

  • The Super Adaptoid will copy the tier-setter, at which point most of its pre-existing powers and physicals are made redundant, but retain a skill advantage. Likely
  • Kara is a Kryptonian with in-tier physicals. Draw
  • Graviton's super-gravity isn't enough to overcome the tier-setter's lifting, and his null-gravity is countered by the tier-setter's flight, leaving him with limited options as the tier-setter beats on him until he goes down. Unlikely

1

u/Qawsedf234 Apr 11 '21

The Super Adaptoid will copy the tier-setter, at which point most of its pre-existing powers and physicals are made redundant, but retain a skill advantage. Likely

How does a robot with superior skills, more abilities, and the same power set as the tier setter not win every time?

Power Girl and Divine are Kryptonians with in-tier physicals.

You'd have to remove their scaling to not get OoT physicals

1

u/HighSlayerRalton Apr 12 '21

How does a robot with superior skills, more abilities, and the same power set as the tier setter not win every time?

The powers it already has are a miscellany of ranged options that are all worse than just using the tier-setter's heat-vision. The skill advantage is the only advantange of note, and it is that which means the Adaptoid is "superior in most if not all aspects and can readily use those to win after a slightly extended fight".

You'd have to remove their scaling to not get OoT physicals

Comic book scaling can make Batman stronger than God. I'm not overly concerned with the problems inherent with scaling to obscure OoT comic book statements, since I don't intend to. Bar the stipulated, the actual feats of the characters and how they're presented isn't over-tier.

1

u/Qawsedf234 Apr 12 '21

The skill advantage is the only advantange of note, and it is that which means the Adaptoid is "superior in most if not all aspects and can readily use those to win after a slightly extended fight".

So.... how does Superman win? He's fighting himself that's more skilled and has Vision's phasing powers along with Thor's magical attacks. A likely victory means they have losing scenarios, so how does Adaptoid lose here?

Bar the stipulated, the actual feats of the characters and how they're presented isn't over-tier.

I guess you're right. The theoretical of what they can be scaled to doesn't mean much if you're not portraying them that way.

1

u/HighSlayerRalton Apr 12 '21

Thor's "magical attacks"—his lightning, I assume you mean—is very slow on the higher-end, more tier-relevant feats, and not super-relevant outside of those, given the tier-setter's electrical resistance. I don't see a situation where the Adaptoid fights the tier-setter and Thor's lightning is a better option than heat-vision.

I can stip out the phasing.

Being more skilled increases the odds of victory, but it doesn't make someone unbeatable unless they're a lot more skilled than the Adaptoid is here. The Adaptoid is superior in skill and can readily use it to win, which is within the definition of 'Likely Victory' that I am aware of, established in GDT and proliferated elsewhere:

Likely victory means your character is superior in most if not all aspects and can readily use those to win after a slightly extended fight.