Clash of Titans Season 5, Round 2

[u/KenfromDiscord]

Rules

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Out of Tier Rules

As this is a debate tournament, it would be a bit silly to not be allowed to debate things. As such your debate skills will be put to the test if or when your Opponent calls your characters OOT during the Rounds. Simply debate better than your opponent and your characters will stay in the tournament. OOT arguments in the tournament proper will be handled as a separate decision from the main judgements. How this works is that, should you argue OOT, whether you were successful will be decided by a judge vote, and then the judgements will proceed taking the result of the vote into account

Battle Rules

Speed - Speed is equalized to Mach 12, Combat and movement speed, with their reactions scaled down/up relatively. Speed boosts via abilities, however, are indeed allowed to make one surpass this base speed threshold.

Battleground:

Round 2 takes place in the Forks (Winnipeg Canada) First team starts in the Human rights Museum, the other team starts at The Skate Park.

For the sake of the tourney there will be no people in the Forks

Your characters cannot leave The Forks, its an automatic loss if you do. Your characters can still interact with things outside of The Forks if they have the ability too. E.g, Magneto can still interact with the metal buildings in Canada however he cannot physically leave the park.

Submission Rules

Tier: Must be able to win an unlikely victory, draw/near draw, or likely victory against Thor Slowdenson in the conditions outlined above and in the sign up post. All entrants will be bloodlusted against Thor, meaning they will act fully rationally and put down their opponent in the quickest, most efficient manner possible regardless of morality, utilizing any and all possible techniques/tactics/attacks if necessary. The bloodlust does not give any foreknowledge of Thor or his capabilities.

Debate Rules

Rounds will last 4-5 days, hopefully from Monday until Thursday or Friday of each week of the tourney; there is a 48 hour time limit both on starting (we do not care who starts, you and your opponent can figure that out) AND on responses, AND ADDITIONALLY each user MUST get in two responses or else be disqualified. If one user waits until the very last minute to force this rule to DQ their opponent without any forewarning to their opponents or the tournament supervisors, they will be removed from this tournament, no exceptions. Format for each round: both respondents get Intro + 1st Response, then 2nd response, then a 3rd response and closing statement individual of one another that can be posted any time after both 3rd responses are complete. EACH RESPONSE MUST BE NO LONGER THAN THREE REDDIT COMMENTS LONG WITH A HARD CAP OF 25,000 CHARACTERS SPLIT BETWEEN THE THREE.

Brackets Here

Round 2 is a 3v3

Round 2 ends Saturday June 12th, Midnight.

[u/KenfromDiscord]

/u/corvette1710 has submitted

Character	Stips	Odds	Justification
Broly	Wrathful form, commanded by Paragus to attack	Likely	Hit hard, dura strong, energy attacks, no lifty
Tian	End of series, motivated to find a worthy challenger	Likely	Monochrome halves stats, Blood Spear stab good and also have electricity
Madara	Edo Tensei Madara starts in Perfect Susano'o	Likely	Stabby never die
Izayoi	Pre Volume 7, has Leo Authority, no Sun Authority, No Aurora Pillar	Likely	Smack real good, take smack real good

vs

/u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 has submitted:

Team: The Adults Are Talking

Character	Series	Match Up	Stipulations
Yamamoto	Bleach	Likely	No Bleach Soul shenanigans, TYBW iteration, has both arms, and starts in Bankai.
Meliodas	Seven Deadly Sins	Likely	Has Lostvayne, Full Counter works on any energy attack, EoS/Peak iteration, and no regeneration.
Escanor	Seven Deadly Sins	Likely	In a permanent The One: Ultimate state, stronger than Estarossa/Mael and Demon King Meliodas per his beatdown of the Demon King and Mael's admission he couldn't beat the Demon King. Meliodas RT and Estarossa/Mael RT for scaling.
Gurren Lagann	Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann	Draw	Post-Timeskip Gurren Lagann, and remove this moon feat.

[u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 → u/KenfromDiscord]

Out of Tier Request: Broly

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Bro, what the fuck?

It's a mountain busting tourney. Mountain, singular. Not Mountains.

My opponent presents and gives scans of Broly being a casual multi-mountain buster when the tier setter is simply a mountain buster, singular.

Thor Slowdenson

• Lands a right hook on Hulk's chin that would fell a mountain.

  • For the scale here we'll be using Mt. Adams, or Thor toppling a 12,000 foot mountain in one punch.

• Brings Hulk to the ground but fails to KO him with an all out two handed hammer blow to the head

  • For the purposes of quantification Hulk is durable enough to very easily withstand a blow that would turn a 13,000 foot Mt. Elbert into gravel to the chin and himself strikes as hard as Thor can. Use this for further reference on Hulk in the context of this tier

• Two blows from a physical equal with a melee weapon to the head nearly kills him, breaking his skull, but he still is able to retaliate with a powerful blow

• Withstands a powerful blow from Hulk while he is gripped directly to the head without losing consciousness

  • To reiterate, Hulk is a physical equal to Thor whose strength grows, and he can completely demolish a 13,000'' mountain.
  • Withstands another blow to the head in the same fight
  • Takes a blow to the head and continues fighting, then takes a blow to the body that wobbles him but still immediately retaliates with a strike that sends Hulk flying

Thor Slowdenson is a casual mountain buster who can contend with physical equals, yet my opponent presents Broly as a literal casual multi-mountain buster:

Broly Too Strong

• SSG Vegeta punches Broly through half a dozen mountains
  • Broly's Wrathful form no-sells this hit directly to the face

No-selling punches straight to the face that previously launched him through numerous mountains.

• Takes a bunch of bodyshots from SSG Goku
  • every hit is multimountainbusting to the degree of several mountains with each hit

"Takes"

Broly literally takes 0 damage from the 5 multi-mountain busting hits Goku threw at his chest.

Thor is not even going to phase Broly with any attack as Broly is being presented.

• Manhandles Goku completely
• Takes a hit and still blasts Goku into the air
• Follows into the air and smashes back down

So Goku is casually multi-mountain busting as my opponent said and Broly just wipes the fucking floor with him after powering up as my opponent has him.

This man is not in tier if he's stomping multi-mountain characters physically.

• Meets strikes with SSB Goku
• Goku throwing him to the ground causes an earthquake

A much stronger Goku still isn't superior to Broly.

Bro, what the fuck.

Broly Too Powerful

And that's not all, because Broly has ranged attacks

• Broly flaring his aura blows open the top of a mountain

His aura.

• Chou Makouhou blows apart half a dozen mountains and then a larger mountain
• Ki ball blows apart a bunch of mountains and turns the observable area into a lava-filled hellscape

His energy blasts are wiping out mountains. Mountains, several of them at once.

Corv Runs Broly How I Used to Run Tatsumi

That's not even the end of it, my opponent then continues to present Broly as a character who will passively get faster, stronger, and much more durable as the fight goes on:

• Broly gets more skilled as he fights
• Broly becomes more durable the more he fights, from being knocked back by attacks to fully resisting them in short order
• Broly gets faster as he fights, going from missing every attack to blitzing his opponent

From being hurt by attacks to no-selling them.

From being equal in speed to blitzing.

Broly not only physically starts already out of tier with his multi-mountain feats, but he will passively surpass those feats to the point of no-selling/overpowering that level.

Preemptive Rebuttals:

Using my opponent's own words from his last match:

mountain is mountain

busting out ol' reliable

good memes

and regardless, even if the mountains were small and/or made partially of ice, it's both clearly the case that there is rock in them, meaning busting them is significant, and clearly the case that Broly is getting projectiled (meaning Broly took more force than it took to bust those mountains in the initial punch) and that he is going through fucking six of them at a time.

This indicates Broly is taking a fuckload of energy from punches.

charging time

this is dumb, Broly is already in Wrathful form as stipulated (he is completing the process of transforming in the feat embrace links to say he'll just sit there for 40 seconds or some shit) and additionally he has the behavioral stipulation of being commanded to attack by Paragus, which indicates he will immediately attempt to facefuck his opponent.

Conclusion:

Broly is physically multi-mountain, out of tier.

Broly's energy attacks are multi-mountain, out of tier.

Broly passively gets stronger, faster, and more durable to the point of outclassing the opposition, out of tier.

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Out of Tier Request: Madara

So Madara isn't out of tier with his feats, it's the fucking fact that my opponent treats Madara as a in tier with physicals, yet has the audacity to whip out that Madara has 25 clones of equal physicals to himself.

Madara's Physicals

• Destroys a large stone construct and cuts the tops off of two mountains by unsheathing its sword
• Cuts the tops off half a dozen mountains
• Mountainbusting attacks in its face does not harm it
• Madara is completely unharmed by an attack that shakes an island
• Madara's Susano'o protects him from a whole bunch of natural disasters and a huge explosion
• Can summon a huge meteorite
  • And a second one
• The combination of Madara's Biju Bomb and Susano'o's sword is thrown through a protective technique, then across a lake and create a large explosion on the other side

Yeah, so Madara is not out of tier, my opponent presents him as being all around mountain busting, but then he just goes off on Madara's other abilities:

Clones + Sharingan

• Madara can clone himself 25 times
  • All the clones can use Susano'o
• Madara's Sharingan can temporarily paralyze someone he looks at
  • The clones can also use Sharingan to paralyze enemies and predict movement
• Sharingan allows Madara to predict an enemy's movements and copy them, as well as copy ninjutsu and see through illusions

So yeah, Madara alone was not out of tier except for the fact that he makes 25 other exact clones of himself, each can copy abilities, moves, have precog, and could paralyze the opponent.

26 Madaras of mountain busting physicals vs 1 Thor Slowdenson... and the Madara's copy his moves or could paralyze him.

That's not the worst part...

Edo Tensei Madara:

My opponent's words:

• Can regenerate from considerable damage

My opponent is using Edo Tensei Madara, a Madara who has an infinite amount of stamina, Chakra (energy to cast his abilities), is immortal and will regenerate forever no matter the damage.

26 immortal, unlimited energy, forever regenerating Madaras that can copy moves and paralyze with a glance... Out of tier.

Conclusion:

My opponent's own words:

• Madara's piercing attacks are useful and can be thrown at long ranges
• His energy attacks do tier-relevant damage
• His Perfect Susano'o's physicals are enough to eat hits at mountain levels of destruction
• He has 25 clones
• His Sharingan allows him to paralyze other picks
  • and all his clones can use this paralysis technique

Madara is out of tier.

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/u/corvette1710

[u/corvette1710 → u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015]

Out of Tier Defense: Broly

broly hits harder than thor does

yes, though it should be noted that Thor is not just "busts one mountain, Mt. Adams"; Thor's striking is amplified by the use of Mjolnir to the same degree as a hammer would amplify a regular person's striking power. That is to say, he's hitting significantly harder while using Mjolnir.

ki breaks mountain(s)

yeah, doing a move that flares ki outward busts open the top of a mountain. it's not a passive thing, and i think that's pretty clear.

his ki attacks are eminently dodgeable and they have been dodged, per the link to his Chou Makouhou that you have helpfully provided. Thor can fly and basically dodge in any direction and this doesn't hit.

broly gets stronger, faster, etc

yes.

mountains are mountains

yes.

charging time

don't really know what the point of this is. I had to conclusively state what my stipulation meant (apparently) to my last opponent. Broly is unlikely to fuck around with large ki attacks except for in circumstances where he is somehow restrained or failing to hit his opponent with strikes. "Immediately facefuck" to me can only really mean "is a flying brick who will punch you" which is not out of tier so long as he doesn't oneshot Thor, which isn't something I've represented him as doing, especially since Thor can survive two full strikes from an opponent of equal strength who is augmenting their striking power with a weapon, a move that multiplies the force, and still hit back.

anyways

all of this is bunk because Thor literally hits Broly with a lightning bolt and shit is probably donezo, I have not represented Broly as being able to fight through any contact with electricity and it pretty clearly isn't the case that he can just power through it or something.

While yes this is base form, the current is "not a strong" one in the first place so an actual lightning bolt's amount of electricity probably just drops his ass.

I think Broly hits Thor once, Thor's like "damn that hurt" and then Thor fries his ass.

broly in tier pls & ty

Out of Tier Defense: Madara

25 equal clones of himself

That isn't what I said. I said he could clone himself 25 times, that those clones could use Susano'o, and that they could use Sharingan. I never made any mention of the clones' stats relative to Madara, and I certainly never once claimed that all of them are mountainbusting.

My opponent is also glossing over the fact that while Madara's clones use Susano'o, Madara himself uses Perfect Susano'o, the difference between which is, I think, readily apparent on even a cursory examination of both the terms and what they look like in use.

clones copy abilities

no, they copy ninjutsu. different things.

paralyze opponent

Yeah, this is a potent option, but every single clone gets oneshot by lightning (that thor can throw from any position) or a throw from Mjolnir, and Thor can control Mjolnir abstractly as much as he fucking wants to strike opponents even without further movement on his own part.

Add to this that Thor will open a confrontation by throwing Mjolnir and it becomes fairly clear that soon it's a 1v1 of Thor and Madara and a bunch of busted up clones, and Madara, per my opponent's OOT request, is not out of tier on his own.

I also didn't argue that Madara could just summon the clones willy nilly. I haven't mentioned the process for summoning them at all, actually.

This is to say that I don't really know if Madara can just summon them whenever if Thor is smacking the shit out of him with Mjolnir. He'd have to disengage to do it, which is a questionable premise since I haven't argued Madara's movement options as being superior or even comparable to Thor's.

Addendum to "Thor can throw Mjolnir wherever and in whatever manner he wants to put it wherever he wants it to go", I haven't argued Madara sustains the Sharingan paralysis through a hit such as the one Mjolnir produces.

basically

there isn't an actual OOT here since what my opponent is saying is largely based on extrapolation from things I haven't said, and since the clones are a near non-factor to Thor, who can oneshot them, and my opponent hasn't claimed that Madara himself is OOT and in fact stated he was in tier.

madara in tier pls & ty

/u/kenfromdiscord