r/whowouldwin • u/KenfromDiscord • Jun 08 '21

Battle Clash of Titans Season 5, Round 2

Rules

Out of Tier Rules

As this is a debate tournament, it would be a bit silly to not be allowed to debate things. As such your debate skills will be put to the test if or when your Opponent calls your characters OOT during the Rounds. Simply debate better than your opponent and your characters will stay in the tournament. OOT arguments in the tournament proper will be handled as a separate decision from the main judgements. How this works is that, should you argue OOT, whether you were successful will be decided by a judge vote, and then the judgements will proceed taking the result of the vote into account

Battle Rules

Speed - Speed is equalized to Mach 12, Combat and movement speed, with their reactions scaled down/up relatively. Speed boosts via abilities, however, are indeed allowed to make one surpass this base speed threshold.

Battleground:

Round 2 takes place in the Forks (Winnipeg Canada) First team starts in the Human rights Museum, the other team starts at The Skate Park.

For the sake of the tourney there will be no people in the Forks

Your characters cannot leave The Forks, its an automatic loss if you do. Your characters can still interact with things outside of The Forks if they have the ability too. E.g, Magneto can still interact with the metal buildings in Canada however he cannot physically leave the park.

Submission Rules

Tier: Must be able to win an unlikely victory, draw/near draw, or likely victory against Thor Slowdenson in the conditions outlined above and in the sign up post. All entrants will be bloodlusted against Thor, meaning they will act fully rationally and put down their opponent in the quickest, most efficient manner possible regardless of morality, utilizing any and all possible techniques/tactics/attacks if necessary. The bloodlust does not give any foreknowledge of Thor or his capabilities.

Debate Rules

Rounds will last 4-5 days, hopefully from Monday until Thursday or Friday of each week of the tourney; there is a 48 hour time limit both on starting (we do not care who starts, you and your opponent can figure that out) AND on responses, AND ADDITIONALLY each user MUST get in two responses or else be disqualified. If one user waits until the very last minute to force this rule to DQ their opponent without any forewarning to their opponents or the tournament supervisors, they will be removed from this tournament, no exceptions. Format for each round: both respondents get Intro + 1st Response, then 2nd response, then a 3rd response and closing statement individual of one another that can be posted any time after both 3rd responses are complete. EACH RESPONSE MUST BE NO LONGER THAN THREE REDDIT COMMENTS LONG WITH A HARD CAP OF 25,000 CHARACTERS SPLIT BETWEEN THE THREE.

Brackets Here

Round 2 is a 3v3

Round 2 ends Saturday June 12th, Midnight.

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u/corvette1710 ​ Jun 12 '21

Broly

Physicals

Ki

General Combat Aptitude

Conclusion

  • Broly hits harder than anyone else
  • Broly can move at speeds opponents can't react to in time to stop them from getting laid out by punch 1
  • Broly's durability is sufficient to outright ignore mountainbusting attacks
  • Broly's ki attacks will obliterate most picks

Tian

Heaven Itself

General Applicability of Monochrome

Power of Monochrome

Suppression

White Wall

A specialized form of Monochrome that breaks apart the body at a microscopic level and instantly blinds enemies Tian will typically use it to fight enemies up close

Blood Spear

It will pierce most picks.

Conclusion

  • Any enemy pick that wants to operate within three miles of Tian must be able to lift a mountain at a baseline. Then, they have to fight like that
  • All abilities and physicals are halved, regardless of source
  • The Blood Spear is a potent piercing weapon that very few picks can resist
  • Tian's physicals are nothing to sniff at, either, and he can go toe-to-toe with most picks just fine

Madara

Madara starts in Perfect Susano'o which means he's basically a big samurai avatar with a sword. He can clone himself and regenerate and has a bunch of other Nardoshit I'll explain to the best of my ability

Madara

Clones + Sharingan

Conclusion

  • Madara's piercing attacks are useful and can be thrown at long ranges
  • His energy attacks do tier-relevant damage
  • His Perfect Susano'o's physicals are enough to eat hits at mountain levels of destruction
  • He has 25 clones
  • His Sharingan allows him to paralyze other picks
    • and all his clones can use this paralysis technique

My opponent's team sucks

they are not at the same level as my team

None of Yamamoto's attacks are mountain tier whatsoever.

Tian's Monochrome completely nullifies every bit of Yamamoto's offensive options due to their lack of scale. These are the largest singular feats concerning Yamamoto and they pale in comparison to Monochrome's dampening power, which includes, again, completely dampening and defeating an output that vaporized all the water in a large column in the ocean that was likely miles' worth of water.

Escanor's big boy heat feat is evaporating a lake which is submountain unless my opponent has feats that indicate it is at all comparable to a mountain. Just eyeballing it it doesn't look big.

Meliodas I don't even know. The state stipulated (The One: Ultimate) is not marked in the RT whatsoever. I'm also not sure the stipulation that his Counter just affects all energy attacks is a valid stip when it seems clearly delineated in the RT to only affect magical attacks and not other means of attack.

I'm also not sure any of these characters, provided their attacks 1) work and 2) are of scale with my characters, can actually hit someone like Broly at Mach+ when they're being slowed by Monochrome, especially when they're also dealing with 26 paralysis bots and dodging piercing attacks and mountainbusting explosions

Conclusion

  • Broly oneshots with strikes and energy attacks
  • Monochrome makes this happen even harder
  • Madara's Perfect Susano'o just cuts them up or blows them up, doesn't matter which
  • Monochrome also makes this happen even harder
  • Tian can just stab or otherwise facefuck them
  • you know the drill about monochrome by now
  • yeah my guys just mog i think it's about that simple

/u/imadethison6-28-2015

2

u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ​ Jun 15 '21

Response 1: At the Door

My Team or Whatever the Fuck

Yama is a Tank

Yamamoto's flames in his weaker iteration are capable of wiping out multiple cities at once and in the iteration I'm using him he has the power of those flames concentrated on his sword.

He is durable enough to actually subdue his own power released all at once and still able to fire off attacks.

Escanor is a Tank

The One Ultimate Escanor washed the Demon King who was superior to Demon King Meliodas.

A weaker Meliodas has destroyed small mountains and even made craters deeper than mountains, plus capable of spamming attacks that just wipe out villages, dwarfing them in size. As the usual shonen mc, he is capable of exchanging blows with someone of similar power and strength.

A weaker Escanor was already above Meliodas per being the Demon King's equal who stated himself to be above Meliodas.

Escanor is at least a casual mountain buster and durable to take similar hits piercing or blunt as shown in the scans.

Meliodas is a Tank

Meliodas is a solid mountain buster with his attacks and such as I explained above.

Conclusion:

My team is strong boys. All around solid casual mountain busters.

Hot Boyz

They're fucking hot as shit.

Yama is the Sun

Yamamoto's body is covered in flames that are 15 million degrees Celsius and his sword is that hot as well. The flames surrounding his body vaporize anything that come into contact with him and his sword vaporizes whatever is in the path of his swing. The heat from Yamamoto was evaporating the water from the planet, shutting off ice powers, turning people to ash if not for innate resistances, and slowly destroying the world. It even vaporizes energy based attacks.

Escanor is a Mini-Sun

Escanor radiates heat, it's his main power and it's really hot.

Melts the ground beneath his feet.

Melts the armor off knights.

Instantly turns a full plate armor to vapor, despite it being stated that it was impregnable even superior flames.

Instantly liquefies a castle.

Escanor is capable of making tiny suns that he can explode to instantly vaporize entire lakes.

Meliodas Got Flames

He makes fire, but his aren't hot. However, he has the heat resistance to survive the vicinity of his teammates, Meliodas has no-sold Escanor's exploding mini-sun in an enclosed space that was doubled in power, so he is the only one who should be alright on this battlefield.

Broly, Tian, and Madara Melt

Broly's best heat resistance is no-selling lava, that's 1250 degrees Celsius. He dies from heat exposure.

Madara physically avoids lava and his Susano'o melts from prolong contact with lava. He dies looking at Escanor and Yama.

I can't find heat resistance from Tian, passively melts from the vicinity of Escanor and Yamamoto.

Conclusion:

They melt their opponents who lack heat resistance.

My Team Synergizes Well

Meliodas and Escanor are already on a team together, the Seven Deadly Sins, and know each other's abilities while also having done combination attacks.

Yamamoto runs a military division, understands working with partners on the battlefield, and has been doing so for over a thousand years.

Meliodas' Lostvayne and Full Counter.

Meliodas is able to make up to 4 clones of himself with each capable of spamming is Full Counter ability. Full Counter allows him to repel energy and magical attacks back at double the power.

This is a perfect ability for a team match against multiple opponents, Meliodas could surround his team with his clones and literally repel back any ranged attack from all opponents back towards them at double the power, protecting his team while also attacking offensively with the repelled attacks.

As Meliodas and Escanor are on a team from their series, they have great synergy combining their own attacks with Meliodas doubling their attack power back and forth to reach absurd levels of power, he could replicate this with any of Yamamoto's fire based abilities on top of his and Escanor's power to create absurd and powerful explosions that just wipe out entire teams at once.

If all else fails, Meliodas can stack the damage he takes to reflect back at the enemy at 30 times all the damage he received, a last resort attack he used in a 9 v 1, something he would do in odds like this against so many characters at once. With Meliodas' durability and endurance, he can receive a punishing to send back attacks absurdly past anyone's durability.

Conclusion:

Full Counter is a perfect ability against the likes of Madara and Broly who use long range energy attacks that Meliodas can keep reflecting and bouncing around back at more than double the power. Or repeatedly bounce around back and forth between his own teammates' attacks or clones to stack the damage to x 4, 8, 16, and so on and so forth times the damage back towards Tian, Broly, and Madara.

Yamamoto's Skeleton Army

Yamamoto can summon an enormous amount of undead soldiers from fallen enemies he's killed in his life (he's over 2 thousands years old and the ability says ten trillion).

Although the undead army lacks feats, with their massive numbers he can use them to stop enemies by overwhelming them and even holding them back.

These soldiers are made from his heat and flames, resistant to his own powers, the perfect distractions and numbers for this team battle to overwhelm the other team.

Perfect when facing off against a Tian, Broly, and potentially 26 Madaras.

End of Part 1

1

u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ​ Jun 15 '21

Response 1 - Part 2

Madara is Dogshit Weak and a Non-factor, the Fight is 2 v 3

Let me go through every single one of Madara's feats my opponent linked and tell you why he's dogshit:

One of the only decent Madara feats. But it's mountain tops and no-busting, this wouldn't phase my characters who have bladed durability.

These are hills, not mountains.

That 9-tailed thing in the middle is half the size of the hills and this is 5'10 Madara standing on it's head with his full body visible.

Hills, not mountains.

Even in the scan of the sword swing, you are shown the people besides the wooden hand constructs that then grab the 9-tailed fox. It's small.

Surface area. Madara's Susano'o only took a portion of that explosion, not the full brunt.

The Perfect Susano'o armor was severely damaged though from this clash. For size reference, [that clash was able to cover this giant construct which is a few times taller than the 9-tailed fox that is not that big.]

This isn't impressive, you can see how small it is.

My opponent has never read Naruto.

This is Juubi Jinchuriki Madara.

My opponent is using the weaker Edo Tensei Madara.

As explained in Naruto, Genjutsu is an ability affects the 5 senses of the target by manipulating the Chakra that flows in the target's cranial nerves to cast illusions on the target. Chakra is a unique energy to the Narutoverse and it flows through their bodies in a unique biological system called Keirakukei.

What Madara does here is Sharingan Genjutsu.

My characters do not have Chakra nor a biological system similar to the Keirakukei for Madara to manipulate to even use Genjutsu on them.

Useless.

Surface area. Madara's Susano'o only took a portion of that explosion, not the full brunt.

No named Fodder also survived the attack.

In all of Madara's numerous fights and appearances, he did this once.

He would never do it in-character.

Also, the meteors are smaller than a mountain as it's smaller than Madara's Perfect Susano'o when it stood beside it (you can see Madara standing in it's forehead).

It would be one-shot or melted passively.

Once again, my opponent is using Edo-Tensei Madara.

This feat is Living Madara who is much more powerful and has Kurama as a summon who makes the Biju Bombs. Edo Tensei Madara can't do this.

This would be impressive if Madara wasn't cucked by Escanor and Meliodas.

Escanor's heat and flames stop regeneration from wounds.

Meliodas' Hellfire couldn't be healed by a character who regenerated from a blood splatter.

In all of Madara's numerous fights and appearances, he did this once.

He would never do it in-character.

Even when Madara was losing fights, he would not pull this out.

Even when Madara was fighting an entire army alone, he did not pull this out.

It's not even a potential outcome.

It can't predict energy based abilities and none of my characters use Ninjutsu nor illusions.

It's useless.

Physically Trash

The more durable Alive Madara was stabbed with a katana by Sasuke. I can't give you any good physical feats by this Sasuke besides making craters in the ground or cracking the ground.

Madara without the Susano'o is dogshit weak, a sword swing in his direction will kill him since he jobs harder than Martian Manhunter and literally hesitates to use his Susano'o (especially the Perfect Susano'o which he's used twice in present day Naruto).

Conclusion:

Match is 2v3, Madara is fodder and useless hotdog water. He also can't fly unlike everyone else in this fight.

I'm pretty sure my opponent doesn't even know who he is using since he used the wrong Madara feats.

Broly Meh

Broly is a physical powerhouse I won't deny, but the heat really makes him a non-factor. He has literally no answer to the heat.

Then he's cucked by Meliodas' Full Counter just sending his Ki attacks back even stronger.

So for Broly it goes like so:

1) Engage in physical combat to melt by Escanor and Yama.

OR

2) Fight at a range with Ki Blasts to get them redirected back at him even more powerful by Meliodas.

Conclusion:

Cucked by heat in close quarters or cucked by reflection at range.

Tian - Monochrome is Overrated and Tian is Weak

Trash Physicals

The shockwave from the Blood Spear is superior to an attack that busted more than half a mountain.

You can make out the trees on this "mountain". It's a hill and a small one at that.

Begins destroying the skin of a golem when the golem's skin previously withstood a mountain-shattering blow.

1) Armored City's skin is fine, it's not even being destroyed in the scan. It's being suppressed as Monochrome is halting it's progression and making it weaker due to the halving effect.

2) Armored City's strike is what shatters only a portion of the Crystal Mountain and it required a double-handed hammer strike to destroy that portion.

3) Crystal Mountain is not a real mountain, you can see the skyscraper like structures on it. It's like 300-400 meters wide and 200-300 meters tall. That's just a big hill.

4) Armored City causing this damage does not reflect back to it's durability.

Tian is literally dogshit weak physically and gets mogged by any glance towards him.

Monochrome is Meh

It doesn't fully suppress abilities.

Tian admits Zi Yu broke through Monochrome with an ability, it just could not maintain it's structural integrity to keep going through.

If it supposedly had miles of range and nullified abilities, then these blades shouldn't have reached close to Tian then. That's just not how Monochrome works, it breaks down and weakens abilities to the point of suppression.

Due to the durability and strength of my characters, Monochrome will not suppress nor weaken them enough to stop my characters.

Conclusion:

Tian is physically weak and Monochrome is overrated.

Final Conclusion

My team fucking mogs with 15 million degree heat, heat that can vaporize lakes and castles, repelling all attacks from all sides at double the power, an undead army of skeletons, and mountain level physicals/power on top of it all that they can spam everywhere in range or close range.

/u/corvette1710

1

u/corvette1710 ​ Jun 18 '21

Response 2

Yama is dogshit

the claim: YAMA CAN WIPE OUT MULTIPLE CITIES AT ONCE

the evidence: many times a tiny town

Very cool but very doesn't matter when a Monochrome weaker than Tian's can fully suppress citybusting fire that is certainly citybusting.

Yea Yama's attacks are literally just not mountain tier anything. Karakura Town is small, plus ashing a city is still just not on the scale of mountainbusting. Besides this, Yama would have to get close, which just gets him oneshot by Broly, who is moving at Mach+ and can just smack him in the face--and Broly can do this, punch Yama (and anyone else) because Monochrome is fully suppressing every member of my opponent's team fully, because they're not strong.

Beyond this Yama has never lifted a goddamn thing, has no resistance whatsoever to being crushed and disintegrated by Monochrome, and is completely unable to sustain a hit from Broly, a blast from Broly, a slash from Madara, etc. He just does not operate on the scales necessary to combat any member of my team.

His aura disintegrates an energy attack? Great. It doesn't disintegrate an energy attack with any tier-relevant feats, and certainly not any that destroy multiple mountains.

Plus Yama eating his own MULTICITYBUSTING ATTACK floors his ass. He's down in literally one second flat from any hit on my team including Monochrome.

tl;dr citybusting =/= mountainbusting this character is under tier

i can also preempt my opponent's evidence as he used in GDT5. just because you can swing a 13km sword through karakura town doesn't mean karakura town is 13km in diameter. You can swing a 30in sword through a 2in pole and you'd be getting the exact same effect at a smaller scale. i outright reject the assertion that karakura town is necessarily large when every source tells us it's tiny.

sds i do not care they are weak and small and i do not respect them

passive heat means nothing to monochrome. Tian's Monochrome fully suppressed the Phoenix, which I already stated was greater than any heat attack my opponent could provide for his characters, and which hasn't been exceeded so far.

Escanor is the strongest heat threat between him and Meliodas, and his best heat feat is a little lake, considerably less water than Shi Xing being able to vaporize from the bottom of the ocean to the surface. Tian's Monochrome will outright disarm Escanor and Meliodas both.

Meliodas is also not busting this mountain and whatever with a punch, this is a specific attack that I don't know he'll engage in here. It's also beholden to surface area, which means none of my picks will be hit with "mountainbusting force" even before Monochrome reduces the power by half. This is highly unlikely to damage any of my picks.

Plus, even if it were mountainbusting force, Broly would fucking ignore it and slap Meliodas, Madara would tank it, and Tian is highly unlikely to ever be hit by it in the first place.

fights a physical equal bc shonen mc

how the fuck do we know this guy is a physical equal to meliodas, and where is our basis for meliodas's physicals coming from?? The mountain thing is sure as fuck not a punch. Zero evidence has been supplied to either end.

Village wiping is also not mountainbusting, btw.

The fact stands that being able to contend at the mountain level is not something that intrinsically allows you to contend with Broly when he's hitting harder than you, is flying at you faster than you can react, and your durability is halved.

Fuck counter

Again, I raised the point in response 1 that Full Counter does not seem to be able to reflect non-magical attacks, and it is the case that there is no magical vector of attack on my team. I think it's an invalid stipulation to say that just any energy attack would be affected when the technique applies to a very specific vector of attack utilizing what is explicitly referred to as "magic".

skeleton army

they just get buttfucked by Monochrome there is literally nothing else to say about this other than they suck, Tian completely dispelled a huge number of superhuman combatants in a massive area with a thought. these skeletons are no different and Monochrome kills them.

synergy

There is no synergy greater than the facilitation of the facepunch.

Tian's Monochrome allows for Broly to run roughshod over your entire team in likely less than a second as their heats are extinguished by Monochrome, Broly flies in at Mach or greater speed, and mogs your weak picks with a single punch to the face each, as their durability has been halved, so even if they were able to sustain a hit before, they are unlikely to be able to now. Madara could do literally anything including nothing and my team would still immediately defeat yours.

The whole "bounce shit between them" thing from the SDS boys would have to be shown as the very first thing they do, and then that whole process would have to exist in the context of "suppressed by Monochrome fully" and "occurs before Broly facefucks them". I kind of think their first move is gonna be to punch my guys or something, based on how my opponent has presented them as physical threats. Anything else is completely cut off from them based on Monochrome's power completely exceeding theirs.

monochrome is that good, i'm sorry

Yeah, Monochrome is every bit that good, sorry that sucks for you

Ah Gou's weaker Monochrome (this is restated) could hold back the weight of a mountain from a golem who pushed him back a mile for every step. This is necessarily the force that Tian's Monochrome is exerting in suppression.

Tian's Monochrome completely suppressed and defeated the Phoenix, who while bound to Shi Xing exploded a huge column of water from the ocean floor up to the surface through heat. This is a better heat feat than any attack or aura on my opponent's team, bar none, and Tian can fully extinguish it with his Monochrome.

The range of Monochrome is massive, exceeding that of Ah Gou's which was pretty fucking big and which [begins breaking apart a huge golem]( which, again, explicitly weighs as much as a mountain. If it's hitting anything like a person can, it's creating a greater amount of energy than just its weight using its strikes.

it's the blood spear

Yeah cool story about small mountains or whatever but narration states it's a mountain

Plus this power, even if it were small, would be concentrated in the tip of the spear, enhancing its effectiveness massively based on the low surface area of the tip.

Also I didn't see any rebuttal to Tian's lightning.

Madara

Madara is still fine even if his Sharingan doesn't work to paralyze my opponent's picks. His sword works, his attacks work, their durability is halved, the whole shibang. Nothing else about it actually matters, and my opponent didn't supply a single piercing resistance feat for any of his characters. My opponent makes claims like "my characters have bladed durability" without supplying any feats to that effect. No scans no point.

he would never meteor

except for that time he meteored twice

can't predict energy based abilities

super cool then that none of your characters' abilities are just "energy", they're all "magic" or some form of soul power explicitly. Also this scan doesn't say "Sharingan is incapable of predicting energy attacks", it says that Naruto's chakra in particular is erratic to Sasuke who is using the technique. The scan makes no general statement about Sharingan's ability to predict energy attacks.

Conclusion

My team's way fucking stronger, way fucking better, way fucking cooler. They win, Monochrome and Broly would mog alone but the fact that Madara's here means more laughing at calling Bleach mountain tier. fuck off with it

  • citybusting is not mountainbusting
  • sds is dogshit
  • monochrome is busted
  • broly is strong
  • nardo

1

u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ​ Jun 19 '21

Response 2: Why Are Sundays So Depressing

Last Response so just gonna point out mistakes and reiterate my character's advantages:

Yama is the Stronk

the evidence: many times a tiny town

The character making this quote is very condescending in nature. The tiny town is not tiny for numerous reasons:

1) The town is located in Tokyo, Japan and the average surface area size of a town in Tokyo (Tokyo has 4 towns) is 93.965 square kilometers.

2) Karakura Town is stated to be quite large and populous as it holds at least 100,000 citizens in it with stations larger than neighboring towns as well.

  • Okutama has an estimated population of 5,177, and a population density of 23 persons per km2. Its total area is 225.53 square kilometers.

  • Hinohara has an estimated population of 2,194, and a population density of 20.8 persons per km2. Its total area is 105.41 square kilometers.

  • Hinode has an estimated population of 17,141, and a population density of 611 persons per km2. Its total area is 28.07 square kilometers.

  • Mizuho has an estimated population of 33,117, and a population density of 1970 persons per km2. Its total area is 16.85 square kilometers.

3) There is a zone inside of Karakura Town that has a diameter of 7.854 kilometers that fits inside of Karakura Town.

4) A 13 kilometer long sword fit inside of Karakura Town.

So every hit from Yama in his Bankai form that I am using him in hits with a force that can instantly wipe out several towns of this size and can take hits from such force.

Monochrome Ain't Doing Shit

Very cool but very doesn't matter when a Monochrome weaker than Tian's can fully suppress citybusting fire that is certainly citybusting.

My opponent literally did not link a city-busting feat to prove this.

Monochrome is still sub-mountain and sub-city level.

The crushing/suppressing effect isn't doing shit when the energy Yamamoto used to wipe out several cities at once is surrounding every inch of his body.

Monochrome isn't mountain level and it's best feat was Ah Ghou's inferior Monochrome halting the movement of a walking city that was described as having the weight of a mountain yet it did not have the power to bust a city itself nor ever once a portion of a mountain.

It's sub-city level in power which Yama's defensive energy surpasses.

Conclusion:

Yama is still really fucking strong, hot, and durable.

My opponent literally did not link a citybusting scan and messed up since he just posted the same scan in the same sentence that had no mentions of a city.

Monochrome is too weak to overcome Yama's energy defense.

SDS Stronk Too

Monochrome has Dogshit Heat Nullification and Escanor's Heat is Too Good

Suppressing Shi-Xing's heat is not evidence it could suppress Escanor nor even Yama's heat (my opponent didn't even attempt once to argue it could suppress Yama's explicit 15 million degree heat so it's still on the table of passively vaporizing Madara, Broly, and Tian).

Shi-Xing didn't vaporize an equal amount of water on par with Escanor. Shi-Xing vaporizes a small pillar of water as you can see a character's literal body in front of the pillar's diameter. This limits the maximum volume the water could possibly be.

But that's not the only crushing blow to the level of heat as it took Shi-Xing several panels and internal monologues that his opponent had who literally stated he would wait for Shi-Xing since he knew he was going to come back from the bottom of the ocean eventually with an attack. He even confirms that Shi-Xing was building up heat during his wait.

It takes an unknown but long amount of time for Shi-Xing to do this:

  • His opponent states he would wait for Shi-Xing.

  • His opponent confirms Shi-Xing was building up heat over time.

  • His opponent is literally shown waiting.

  • His opponent has several panels of internal dialogue.

  • The ocean is visibly shown to slowly glow red, then slowly boil, and then rapidly boil.

Escanor's Heat:

The lake he vaporizes is pretty big as shown with higher quality scans.

But what makes it even more impressive is the fact that he vaporizes all that volume of water instantly.

Page 6 Escanor throws his mini-sun to the bottom of the lake and then activates it's ability.

Page 7 it's instantly and entirely turned into steam in the next panel with direct confirmation it is steam and done in an instant.

Escanor's heat is vastly superior in volume and even the time it took to vaporize it's volume of water in comparison to Shi-Xing's slow boil, Monochrome is not suppressing Escanor.

Meliodas and Escanor are Stronk

The feat of Meliodas making the crater with displaced mass larger than a mountain was done with his darkness energy.

He can condense that energy into tiny pillars for singular targets.

Further condense them to be even more powerful as countless dense balls to swarm his opponents.

The Meliodas I am using is his peak iteration who has unveiled his true power being those condensed swarms of darkness balls. They're literally his normal attacks at this iteration.

Meliodas is hitting with such force in those tiny ass orbs, a large force concentrated on a tiny orb attack that is going to shred Broly, Tian, and Madara.

On top of this the Meliodas that made the mountain size crater could not break a magical cube he was trapped in, but the stronger form I'm using him in casually breaks it and even breaks it again when severely weakened.

Escanor scales obviously for literally being above Meliodas in power and strength as previously stated.

how the fuck do we know this guy is a physical equal to meliodas, and where is our basis for meliodas's physicals coming from?? The mountain thing is sure as fuck not a punch.

Evenly exchanging blows makes you physical equals and Meliodas is powered by his Darkness as that is his literal energy that makes up his being as a Demon. But for solid proof, that same energy couldn't even hurt an opponent once and then Meliodas physically started bodying them later on.

Escanor's using his hand to stop that same guy's blade.

Bladed Durability

I thought it'd be obvious this scales back to bladed durability given these characters fight with swords and hit each other all the time despite all the strength and power.

Full Counter Will Counter Energy Attacks

I did stipulate it would work on energy attacks, but here are all the feats anyways:

[BoS] Counters air slashes (Not Magic). A B

[BoS] Counters lightning magic. A B C

[BoS] Counters Explosion magic A B C

[BoS] Counters a barrage of magical attacks from several holy knights.

[BoS] Counters Hellblaze magic.

[BoS] Counters fireball magic A B

[BoS] Counters invisible magic

[PR] Counters fire magic

[UM] Counters toxic gas magic

[AM] Counters Cruel Sun

[DK] Counters darkness magic

[DK] Repeatedly counters the combined attacks of all 7 sins, culminating in a blast that would have destroyed the entire country of Brittania

[DK] Counters blasts from a reality warper (Not Magic).

[BoS] Disperses a fireball

[DK] Disperses darkness magic

[DK] Counters natural lightning (Not Magic).

It's countering Broly's Ki and Madara's Ninjutsu.

Conclusion:

Monochrome isn't suppressing shit.

Meliodas and Escanor are physically the stronk and Madara's weak ass Susano'o isn't cutting shit.

Full Counter is reflecting back Broly's Ki at double the power.

End of Part 1

1

u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ​ Jun 19 '21

Response 2 - Part 2

Synergy Too Good

Escanor and Meliodas Synergy

The whole "bounce shit between them" thing from the SDS boys would have to be shown as the very first thing they do, and then that whole process would have to exist in the context of "suppressed by Monochrome fully"

Funny because they actually do.

They immediately do the combination attack after overcoming their opponent's suppressing attack and then their combined attack overpowers that same opponent's nullification magic (long album for the context).

Yama's Skeletons

Tian completely dispelled a huge number of superhuman combatants in a massive area with a thought. these skeletons are no different and Monochrome kills them.

These "superhuman combatants" don't have actual feats to show them even being superhuman.

Yama's ten trillion skeletons showed that a dozen of them could at least hold back an enemy and stopped their attack when said enemy could destroy city blocks.

Conclusion:

Good Ass Synergy.

Strong Ass Skeletons that Tian can't erase like those weak feat-less angel whatever the fuck things. They ain't got feats like Yama's skeletons.

Tian is Hot Dog Water

Bro, literally no mountain busting feat nor even an actual city feat to his name.

Blood Spear is a Stick

Yeah cool story about small mountains or whatever but narration states it's a mountain

Narration could say it's universe busting but if they draw a fucking tree being destroyed and everything else find then obviously the narration is fucking stupid and wrong.

The fucking wave didn't even destroy half that tiny ass hill that has visible trees a 12th of it's height. It's obviously fucking wrong and not visually what the feat did.

Plus this power, even if it were small, would be concentrated in the tip of the spear, enhancing its effectiveness massively based on the low surface area of the tip.

Get fucked by Escanor's finger.

Get fucked by Yama's sword.

Get fucked by Meliodas' tiny orbs.

As shown above for durability, they can tank mountain levels of force on the edges of blades with Yama being covered in every inch with a durable energy.

That weak as shit spear that is sub-hill busting isn't doing shit.

Tian's Electric Sparks Tickle

Also I didn't see any rebuttal to Tian's lightning.

Nothing states it's real lightning or anything, just a random electrical attack with no impressive properties.

However:

For Yama, the lightning won't get through the flame cloak given it stopping stronger energy attacks, but even if it did it ain't doing shit to Yama given a repeated onslaught of lightning didn't do shit to him before and he actually responded with an explosive flame attack that just vaporized the opponent.

For Meliodas, in his weakest form he's taken on multiple hits of stronger and even larger lightning strikes.

His Clones should cover his team either way.

Monochrome Was Never Good, Stopping Believing Verlux's Lies and Wank

Armored City is Weak and Small

Ah Gou's weaker Monochrome (this is restated) could hold back the weight of a mountain

Wow, it could lift the weight of a mountain but it can't destroy a mountain nor could it even destroy Armored City which is just a walking city. As shown in my previous comment, that shit did not destroy Armored City nor was it doing much damage. It was just suppressing it's ability to move which makes sense as Ah Ghou's inferior Monochrome could hold up it's weight.

It's Sub-Mountain busting and Sub-City busting.

from a golem who pushed him back a mile for every step.

Fun Fact: Feng Shen Ji is a Chinese comic, it uses Chinese Miles.

The Chinese Mile (Li) is 500 meters. Feng Shen Ji takes place around the Shang Dynasty to my understanding. During the Shang Dynasty, the measurement of Li was even smaller. During the Xia Dynasty (before Shang) the unit was only 405 meters and during the Western Zhou Dynasty (after Shang) it was 358 meters.

So no, it does not push him back a mile with every step.

Monochrome isn't Suppressing Shit

Tian's Monochrome completely suppressed and defeated the Phoenix, who while bound to Shi Xing exploded a huge column of water from the ocean floor up to the surface through heat. This is a better heat feat than any attack or aura on my opponent's team, bar none, and Tian can fully extinguish it with his Monochrome.

As I showed above, this feat is dogshit for being slow, only boiling after a long time, and a small volume of water.

Yama's 15 million degrees C and Escanor's castle liquifying and lake instant vaporization are orders of magnitudes better.

Also, Escanor overpowered a power suppressing ability by flexing his muscles and making his Cruel Sun more powerful.

Tian's Monochrome isn't doing shit with it's piss-poor feats.

What Range?

The range of Monochrome is massive, exceeding that of Ah Gou's which was pretty fucking big and which [begins breaking apart a huge golem]( which, again, explicitly weighs as much as a mountain. If it's hitting anything like a person can, it's creating a greater amount of energy than just its weight using its strikes.

My opponent fails to link context nor a scan to tell me anything here.

This line is bunk.

Conclusion:

Monochrome is literal ass cheeks.

Monochrome isn't doing shit to my team due to being sub-mountain/city level.

The Blood Spear is weak as shit and so is Tian since his feat is literally a small hill with visible trees on them and my opponent did not defend the Armored City "mountain feat" since it was obviously bad as I explained.

Monochrome is not suppressing Escanor nor Yama's flames since Shi-Xing's feat is not comparable to Escanor nor Yama's heat.

Tian melts before even activating Monochrome and melts even if he started with it since it's not suppressing the heat from Yama and Escanor.

Foddera

Bro, Madara is so ass it's not even funny and it's actually funny since my opponent never read Naruto and they keep tripping up and showing their lack of knowledge.

His sword works

1) Susano'o is literally walking Chakra, it's just walking energy that get's reflected by Meliodas.

2) It also get's melted by Escanor or Yama.

3) Overpowered by any of them given their superior power as they carry more force in their blows due to their smaller size.

4) Never lands an attack due to speed equalization and Susano'o being 100 meters tall.

5) Madara never pulls it out due to his incompetence as a fighter who literally does not use the Perfect Susano'o except twice in all of present-day Naruto.

his attacks work

Nothing about Madara is "mountain" level except for the Perfect Susano'o, no idea what my opponent is even thinking about here.

except for that time he meteored twice

The same instance in the same chapter and same moment.

Madara never does it again despite encountering entire battlefields of opponents multiple times after.

super cool then that none of your characters' abilities are just "energy", they're all "magic" or some form of soul power explicitly. Also this scan doesn't say "Sharingan is incapable of predicting energy attacks", it says that Naruto's chakra in particular is erratic to Sasuke who is using the technique. The scan makes no general statement about Sharingan's ability to predict energy attacks.

This is where I would ask my opponent to show just one scan of a Sharingan user being able to predict energy attacks.

It doesn't exist in all of Naruto.

Sasuke's statement stands.

Conclusion:

Madara is literally useless, this fight is 2 v 3.

Madara is physically sub-city and sub-city blocks.

Madara would never use Perfect Susano'o. Either way it's too weak, not durable enough, not heat resistant, not fast enough, and reflected by Meliodas.

Final Conclusion

Tian is weak and so is Monochrome.

  • Monochrome does not have the feats to suppress any of my characters in any way.

  • Tian is physically sub-hill level with his feats.

  • My opponent didn't bother to defend the Armored City strength feat anyways.

  • Suppressing and damaging the Armored City means nothing per lack of rebuttal. But it also wasn't strong and not sending Ah Ghou an actual mile due to Chinese Miles.

  • Blood Spear is not strong and the lightning does nothing due to resistances and Meliodas' cloones.

  • No heat resistance.

Madara is literal ass.

  • No good physical feats.

  • Susano'o would never be used, is too weak, no heat resistance, too slow, and not durable enough.

  • Madara has no heat resistance.

  • Sharingan ain't doing shit.

Broly is strong but lacks an actual answer in how to fight.

  • Range means his attacks get deflected back.

  • Close Quarters means getting vaped by Yama or Escanor.

My Team works together well.

  • Escanor and Meliodas have good synergy.

  • Lostvayne clones with Full Counter and Yama's non-fodder skeleton army defend his team well and set up a good range offense.

The Heat melts Madara, Tian, and Broly.

  • They literally don't have heat resistance on par.

/u/corvette1710