r/whowouldwin • u/TooAmasian • May 25 '22
Battle Arena of Assholes Round 3
Welcome to the second round of Arena of Assholes, aka Venom Tier
This is a debate focused bracketed tournament where users pick characters to argue against other users, with a certain character (Venom in this case) functioning as a measuring stick to prevent any one user from being too strong or unfair. You pick four characters, enter into rounds, and then argue you win against someone else with their picks.
In this tournament specifically, you choose 4 characters to run that can range from "unlikely to likely victory" against the tier setter Venom. The 4th pick works as a "rotating backup," meaning you choose only 3 of your characters to participate prior to each round.
The Brackets
Round 3 - 1v1s
The Tier Setter
Example of this kind of debate
This tier is designed for strong characters who can deliver and take hits that destroy copious amounts of concrete while being fast enough to bullet-time at close distances.
The tier setter is an idealized version of the sinister symbiote, Venom.
Venom
Full Tourney RT
| Stat | Interp |
|---|---|
| Strength | A full force blow launches an opponent through several floors hard enough to embed into asphalt |
| Speed | Bullet timing reactions, can run 100 mph and web-sling at 200 mph. Superhuman agility. |
| Durability | Is fine being punched through a very thick concrete wall |
| Range | Tentacles can reach around 20 feet when standing still and a decent distance greater than his melee range in combat |
| Misc | Has tentacles that can extend his range, web-slinging for mobility, and anti-stealth measures by "seeing" out of his skin |
Rules
Arena Rules- Round 2's arena will be Highrise from Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2/Mobile (Map images are from Mobile)
Spawn points and other relevant images
- Spawn 1 is the top team in the comment and Spawn A is the bottom team
Assume the building is infinitely tall and there's a bottomless pit underneath
The buildings outside the map's bounds are simply an illusion and cannot be interacted with
Combatants cannot remain under the area of the rooftop (scaling the walls of the building if knocked off for example) for more than 12 seconds without being DQ'd
Do not be an asshat with arena rulings. Do not make arguments like "This is real earth, so abilities do not work" or "I become omnipotent due to magic present in the arena."
Assume materials within the map are made of and equivalent to their real life counterparts
The "ground" of the rooftop is made of solid concrete, for tourney purposes, the lower floors of the building don't exist and is just a solid mass of concrete
All "sunlight' present in the arena is fake sunlight that grants whatever normal powers but will not inhibit vampires or other characters with an inherent weakness via a WWWinium lightbulb. It is as warm and bright as normal sunlight.
Battle Rules
All combatants are aware of the basics of their allies' combat abilities but are in the blind on their opponents (unless they have canon knowledge of said person via sharing a fictional universe)
All combatants are fully aware that their enemy must be defeated for them to be able to survive, to be able to return to their home reality, and for the omnipotent organizers of this scenario to be satisfied. All combatants are aware of rules for the objective of the tournament
Incapacitation is defined by being unable to continue fighting. Being knocked out, being killed, being BFRd, or fully succumbing to exhaustion. If this condition is met for more than 12 full seconds, your character loses, and in a 3v3, they are removed from the arena in a flash of light after being incapacitated for 12 seconds. To reiterate, combatants are aware of this rule. Note that being restrained does not count as being unable to fight if it's something like a physical grapple or generally something that needs concentration to maintain, for example, you can't hold someone in a full nelson for 12 seconds to delete them from a 3v3.
Summons or 'fake' characters do not count for the purpose of a win condition - for instance, if a conjurer died in a 1v1 and left behind his 2 zombies, he would still automatically lose. This also applies to hive-minds or drone characters. This also means that characters who can reasonably be considered one entity can be run with ruling on a case by case basis, and will likely need to have a Prime Entity stipulated. This is, as well, determinable case by case without a specific end all be all example.
Every combatant starts each round being teleported into the arena, knowing full well whomever they face down needs to die or be incapacitated in order for they themselves to advance and win and will do so.
All combatants begin without any weapons drawn or abilities active, hands idle at their sides, and the moment they teleport in they can begin combat
All combatants are in-character for the tourney itself
Characters with holsters or similar will begin with their weapons holstered, characters with weapons that cannot feasibly be holstered will begin with the weapons pointed at the ground.
Debate Rules
This round will last roughly 5 days, from now Wednesday until Monday at noon EST; there is a 48 hour time limit both on starting (we do not care who starts, you and your opponent can figure that out, after Round 2 however we will mandate this) AND on responses, AND ADDITIONALLY each user MUST get in two responses or else be disqualified. If one user waits until the very last minute to force this rule to DQ their opponent without any forewarning to their opponents or the tournament supervisors, they will be removed from this tournament, no exceptions.
Intros, OOT requests, and conclusions are a max of 10k characters
Intros can be used to set up arguments such as by laying out that stats of your characters
Out of Tier Mechanic- A character can be veto'd mid tourney if the opposing debater calls for an Out of Tier review and the head judge agrees they are out of tier.
- An OOT requests works by pinging the head judge (me) and explaining why the character has been argued as Out of Tier by the opponent
- Each participant gets 3 OOT request for the whole tournament which is lost whenever their OOT fails to go through, this is done to avoid abusing the mechanic
You can not bring up new points in your conclusions, it is used to succinctly summarize and go over your prior arguments
Format for each round: the one to go first gets an Intro + 1st Response, their opponent replies in kind, then both get a 2nd response, then a 3rd response in a back-and-forth style, and a closing statement individual of one another that can be posted any time after both 3rd responses are complete. Reponses are max of a 20k characters each spread along a max of 3 comments.
Rounds will either be a full 3v3 Team Match, or 1v1 single matches. 1v1 matches are determined by randomization. Match format will switch every round, with Team Matches always followed by single matches, and vice versa.
Victory Conditions
Winning a match will be determined by a council of 4 judges. Each specific round will be judged by 2 judges with a 3rd judge coming in if needed for a tiebreaker. Judgements are based upon who made the more convincing argument not which character "objectively" wins the matchup.
Links
Pre-Tournament
Tournament
Results
1
u/Ame-no-nobuko May 28 '22
Response 1 Pt. 1
Ref: Stat Post
Superboy v. Ah Gou
Magic
Superboy isn't "weak" to magic. Magic that creates "real" effects like the force of a punch won't hurt Superboy more than the non-magical equivalent:
The Goddess Pele's fire that can slag metal does nothing
Takes a punch from Matrix Supergirl, an Angel, despite her being quite strong
Withstands electricity from the mystical lasso of lightning that vaporizes a guy
Superboy's weakness to magic is only a weakness in the sense he has no special resistance to it. If you wanted to turn him into a frog with a spell you could, but if you use magic to make hot fire the fire would impact Superboy the same as nonmagical
This is backed by WoG
Monochrome v. TTK
Monochrome is uniquely ineffective vs. Superboy
Halved Physicals
Monochrome largely works via applying an omnipresent/directional "pressure". It has no feats for halving reaction. The provided feat was Ah Gou stopping a blitz
TTK also lets Superboy:
Instantly dump KE into a target on contact, without striking. Monochrome has never countered anything like TTK before/shown sway over KE directly
Superboy also has "heat" vision which has a KE component. Monochrome has no feats for suppressing the transfer of energy via light
Offensive
Monochrome throwing/stopping people is also ineffective:
TTK can nullify enhanced gravity that craters him and overwhelms his muscles
Superboy can cushion any falls due to being pushed around
No speed of "corrosion"/proof it can impact people with Superboy's dura has been provided
Defensive
Monochrome's ability to form a barrier to block attacks is fundamentally ineffective against a power that can flow through the surrounding environment. If Ah Gou tries to shield himself, then Superboy will just "hit" him through the soles of his feet
Other
Monochrome isn't an ability that Ah Gou opens with. He usually allows his foe to attack/uses monochrome during an opening
He also rarely maintains it continuously, likely because he can't use his gauntlet at full power while using monochrome, decreasing his offensive prowess.
Theres no reason to think Superboy's physicals would be decreased for the entire/majority of the fight
Speed
General
Superboy is fast, capable of reacting to bullets at a close range
At ~3 m if Superboy even moved ~1 m after the bullets were fired, it's a 8 ms reaction and a 114 m/s striking speed
This is a much less experienced Superboy, mere months after he was "born". Maturity wise he's 11, and the target is his GF. A literal child freezing/reacting poorly in a high pressure situation shouldn't be surprising.
This level of speed is consistent for Superboy he's reacted to bullets meters away from him and while depowered dodged missiles
Superboy can fly across half the US and Atlantic in a night, this is comparable to a commercial jet, placing Superboy's flight speed a bit below mach.
Superboy reacts >2x and moves ~5x faster than Ah Gou
Rate of Fire
Superboy while ill prepared and panicking move at much faster speeds than Ah Gou shows that this is a speed he can maintain. Superboy isn't Rogue where he can continuously chain together attacks at thousands of RPM ad infinitum, but he can still perform multiple fast punches fairly quickly.
Here for example he makes a number of very tight turns while outflying a tracking bullet
It takes "less effort" for Superboy to quickly chain hits as well. Due to TTK he doesn't need to perform a full punch to deal relevant damage.
Monochrome
As monochrome doesn't impact reaction, even when it is in effect (it won't always be), Superboy will have 2x Ah Gou's reaction. Halved he is still >2x faster in movement/striking. Ah Gou is at a severe disadvantage.
Offense
Superboy will land the first hit, he's faster than Ah Gou and can nearly instantly cross the divide between the two, especially as Ah Gou doesn't open with monochrome
Ah Gou has bad dura. Even a halved punch or TTK blast will KO him. His sole hope is a shield, however as noted earlier TTK can just bypass monochrome by attacking Ah Gou via the ground
TTK can blow up the ground underneath Ah Gou, distracting and dealing damage to him from an unprotected angle
Ah Gou can't use his shield while attacking, if he attacks he is opening himself up for retaliation without defense
Superboy can similarly transfer TTK through/around the Form of Nothingness, rendering them defensively useless.
Defense
The slower Ah Gou will not land as many hits as he'd like, especially since he can't strike at full force while using monochrome. The damage dealt, even if Supes' dura is halved, isn't enough:
Dark Cannon
Superboy can withstand being sent through multiple thick walls without issue and is okay after being sent through a bridge.
Corv linked a feat from a weaker version of Superboy
Moon Rounds "cracking iron" is useless against someone who can withstand the hits I linked
Theres rounds would never hit Superboy, his TTK can redirect and reflect projectiles. They'll be harmlessly reflected before they can even hit him
Smelting Aura
Per Corv Ah Gou's base strikes are comparable to tractor warping hits and only hurt Superboy because (as he states) Parasite has absorbed almost all of his power. He was too weak to even lift a tractor
Chaining attacks will be difficult for Ah Gou as Superboy is faster and TTK can interrupt attacks mid flow
Other Stuff
Match Scaling
he only notable Match feat used so far is his flying slam feat.
Match has consistently lost to Superboy. In their most recent fight Superboy is clearly stronger/better. They are also drawn about the same build.
Superboy himself has similar flying slam feats
TTK+
TTK provides one other benefit. The ability to turn off Dark Cannon/the Gauntlet, stripping him of much of Ah Gou's offensive power.
TTK can dismantle anything made of discrete parts even at range. While Ah Gou can reform his tools, this provides Superboy with the ability to dismantle Ah Gou's weapons to create an opening or interrupt an attack
Conclusion
Superboy is faster, meaning he will hit/dodge more
TTK + the nature of monochrome means Superboy retains much of his speed advantage and offensive power
Ah Gou has bad dura and goes down if hit once