r/whowouldwin • u/FreestyleKneepad • Aug 18 '22
Event Character Scramble 16 Tribunal
Tribunal is now over!
Click here to pick your Veto or Opt-Out of NSFW subs
Thanks to everyone involved for your hard work. :)
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Come join our official Discord Channel! It’s the most active community for Scramble by a HUGE margin, and is the first place to get new info as it comes out. You don’t even have to participate in the chat to be a part of the fun, so just swing on by!
Refer to the following links for easy access to all the resources you need to debate cases:
Season 16 Tiersetter RT’s for Predator and Galahad
Current list of unclaimed backups
Signup FAQ
Link to the Pre-Scrambled Roster for this season
Featured Submissions
In an attempt to help aid the review process, we will be highlighting a section of the submissions each day to focus the lens on a group of submissions. Understand that these submissions aren’t being picked due to any reasoning or bias beyond their position on the list alphabetically, our goal is to help you focus on specific parts of the submission list each day in the hopes that characters that would normally pass under the radar are given proper scrutiny.
Here are the featured submissions for today.
The link will be changed each day until we’ve covered the entire submission roster or until Tribunal has ended.
Here’s how this works.
For the next One and a Half Weeks, all characters are under review. If you think a character is not in tier, whether they be too weak, too strong, too nebulous, or somewhere in between, here is where you can air your grievances. We'll be going through all of the submissions during this time, all I ask is that you follow along and call what you see.
Tribunal will end in about 2 weeks, on Monday, August 29th, or when all cases are closed if that happens first.
To clarify, this deadline is subject to change if we decide that there are unresolved issues that warrant some more time. Don’t worry, we’re not going to spend the entire time arguing about Pyramid Head. If we get done early and there’s only a couple cases left a few days before Saturday, odds are good we’ll wrap those cases up and end Tribunal early. Every remaining case will be notified if that’s happening.
If you have a problem with a character:
Create a comment with the name of the character in question, a link to that character sheet, and the username (with /u/ to notify them - /u/GuyOfEvil for instance) of the submitter. Then list what questions/problems you have with the character.
Please be respectful when calling out characters, and remember that you are probably pointing out problems with someone's favorite character/series.
Keep in mind that Tribunal is for judging whether a character is too strong/weak for the tier. Whether or not you personally like the character or think they’re good/well-written has no bearing on whether or not they’re in tier.
Please give a detailed complaint about each character a separate reply to make sure that conversations are organized. Quick thoughts on multiple characters in one post are fine as well as long as you keep each case clearly separated.
Starting with the initial complaint post, each person involved gets five full posts to argue their point back and forth. If a decision is not reached by that point, judges must be called in to make a decision. If that happens, the person issuing the complaint and the person whose submission is being complained about both get one closing post to argue their case to the judges before they rule on the issue. We will allow a little lenience on this when a case involves several people arguing amongst each other as that’s difficult to manage with a limited number of posts, but if it starts to get really long-winded a GM will generally step in and force a vote.
If your character is called out:
First, realize this is not a personal attack. We're just trying to ensure that this tournament runs smoothly for everyone.
Please address the concerns brought forth, either by standing firm and arguing for your character’s inclusion, or by buffing/nerfing the character. Please keep the amount of buffs and nerfs to a minimum. This isn’t a good place to redesign the character from the ground up, and you don’t get any extra Major changes at this point. If the judges determine that it would take more than one Major change to balance the character, your character can also be ruled out of tier that way.
If it’s agreed that a character cannot work in its current state and can’t be easily edited, replacements from the backup submissions will be issued. If one of your characters is being removed you are free to request a specific backup to replace your submission, otherwise a GM will choose for you.
Swapping Backups
If a character is ruled out of tier, you will have the opportunity to swap them with a character from the backup list. Here are some quick clarifications about that.
Once you ping a GM (please ping /u/GuyOfEvil first, but myself or /u/OddDirective can also pass it on to him) with your backup swap of choice, they are now locked in. You are unable to pick a backup, then change your mind and pick a different one later.
If you pick a NSFW backup to replace one of your characters, you will be unable to opt out of receiving NSFW submissions. Keep this in mind when you’re choosing a backup.
If your character is ruled out of tier, and by the end of tribunal you have not picked a backup to replace them, GM’s will default to filling in the slots with your backup submissions. In the case that you have no backups and are seemingly unavailable to pick backups, the GM will swap in characters of their own preference. Since you will be guaranteed one of these submissions in your pool, it’s best to remain active in tribunal, or you may get a character you’re not satisfied with.
If you see a problem with the roster:
Make a post and let us know. Odds are, you will have to resubmit the form with the correct info so if you want to just go ahead and do that and let Letter know to look for the new entry, that would save time.
If your problem is that you don't show up in the list, it’s because you never filled out/submitted the form... just go ahead and do that NOW, assuming that you started your sign up process before this post was created. Here’s the form. If you need to make a change because you swapped things out, just make sure you’re signed into the same account you initially used and you’ll be able to update your form. Please let Letter know either on Reddit or on Discord if you do this. DO NOT CHANGE YOUR FORM IF YOU HAVE TO TAKE A BACKUP REPLACEMENT FOR ANOTHER CHARACTER. We’ll handle those swaps personally when Tribunal ends.
Judges
In order to streamline the decision making process, we have selected a small panel of judges that will, along with the GMs help make decisions on characters where a resolution cannot be reached.
Please give it up for...
/u/TheMightyBox72, /u/Corvette1710, /u/Ultim8_Lifeform /u/Wapulatus
There were a lot of great applications this time around, so if you weren’t picked don’t feel too bummed out. It was pretty close between everyone.
Here's how the judge system works:
If a submission is called out and all parties involved cannot agree as to whether the submission is in tier, ping any three of the judges.
Once judges are being called in, the argument is effectively over. Both sides of the argument will be allowed to post a Closing Argument which sums up their stance, their argument thus far, and any other major notes they might not have been able to touch on just yet or counter-arguments that hadn’t been answered yet. Be complete on this, as this is your last chance to get your word in before the judges decide on the case and effectively close it.
Three of the judges or GMs involved will then each make a statement on whether they think the character is or is not in tier and why. If they're able to come to a complete consensus, then that decision is made final. If a complete consensus is not made among the judges, then the resolution defaults to the majority decision. However, in this case, the decision can be appealed.
To appeal a decision, respond to the post in which the statements are made explaining why you think the arguments made were wrong or inaccurate. After an appeal is made, the remaining two judges will step in and also vote. This vote out of 5 is effectively final. If the previous vote was 2-1 and the new vote is 2-3, them’s the breaks. This is also why an initial unanimous vote among 3 is final, as changing a 3-0 vote to a 3-2 vote doesn’t accomplish anything.
If a final decision is made, then that decision is completely final. You cannot argue it further. If that means a character is in, they won't be brought back up again. If that means a character gets removed, your options are to choose the backup you want to replace them or let a GM choose instead. /u/GuyofEvil is in charge of the backup list, so ping him or have a judge ping him to get any backup swaps sorted out.
To be clear, GMs can do whatever they want and don’t answer to you. If we want to take the place of a judge in a vote, we will. If we want to singularly decide on something, we will (note that this will be very rare and most likely only happen near the end of Tribunal to wrap things up or in cases where something is clearly un-submittable, such as a character from a literal porn series). If we say something needs to be removed for whatever reason, what we say goes. The judges will handle the majority of the Tribunal process, we’re just here to smite shit from the heavens. That takes work, though, so expect the judges to do more judging than us.
If a GM takes the place of a judge in a vote, they’re effectively identical to a judge for that vote. That in mind, if the vote goes 2 to 1 and gets appealed, the remaining judges can still step in on the final 2-person vote.
Veto & NSFW Opt-Out
We will be implementing an opt-out similarly to last season, wherein after Tribunal a link will be posted here letting you designate whether or not you wish to receive a character that is considered NSFW for sexual content. We may also include extreme gore as NSFW.
Additionally, in the same form you will be asked to veto any one character. If you want to, you may designate a character, and you will be guaranteed to not receive them.
A few notes on this process:
A link to this form will be posted on this thread in the top section after Tribunal has ended. The link will also be posted on the Scramble Discord channel. 2 days (48 hours) after the link has been posted, the form will be locked and the GMs will prepare to scramble rosters.
We will not be indicating in any way what characters are and aren’t NSFW. This isn’t an opportunity for you to choose to veto a specific list of characters. This is an opportunity for you to decide whether or not you want a character with NSFW content. NSFW generally only applies to sexual content- we don’t typically include violence and gore in this opt-out.
To that end, anyone who is underaged is automatically opted out of receiving NSFW submissions. While we are aware of certain individuals this applies to, if it is found that you are hiding your age in an attempt to receive a NSFW character on your team despite being under 18, you will be immediately disqualified.
While we did ask in the signup form whether your submissions were NSFW or not, final judgment falls to us as GMs. We may choose to include characters in the list that weren’t marked, and vice versa.
Your veto can be for any character you absolutely don’t want, whether or not they’re included in the opt-out or not. If the character is included in the opt-out, you apply for the opt-out, and you also veto the character, you do NOT get to pick a second character to veto.
You cannot veto your own submissions or backups you pick to replace a Tribunaled submission. If you do, the veto will be ignored.
Discord Rules on Tribunal Discussion
In order to ensure that every scrambler is equally able to contribute to the Tribunal, discussion of specific Tribunal cases will NOT BE ALLOWED on the Discord channel. We believe it is unfair for people to “come to a decision” on a character entirely out of your field of view if you are not on the server, so the topic is banned entirely. Linking to a discussion with the intent to have a Discord user comment on that chain on Reddit is perfectly fine, but actual discussion of the cases will result in the users being warned the first time, and kicked the second time. We have a zero-tolerance policy on this situation.
2
u/LetterSequence Aug 27 '22 edited Aug 27 '22
Tribunal is wrapping up soon, so I'll summarize my points and ask you to ping judges with a closing statement since I'm not really convinced.
Ermes as a Reaper is weird because of her role in the story and how she ordinarily fights being incongruent with how she'd function in this setting. A character who occasionally provides one or two stickers to help in a fight with her friends is being placed in a setting where she sits back and barks out orders while giving out as many stickers as her team needs. This has nothing to do with her tiering, but it still feels strange to me.
The stickers provide three primary benefits: Allowing the Marines to set up traps, increasing their weaponry, and if needed, a viable weapon to harm Predator
Weapons
Increasing their weapons isn't too useful in this scenario, except for the fringe case of giving them more grenades to work with, and some more ammunition.
The Military Soldiers don't benefit from having two guns, or an extra set of arms of legs. Someone in the submission pool might, but it doesn't really help here.
Traps
NukeTown doesn't have too many opportunities to create traps to ensnare the Predator, and there is no guarantee he falls into those traps. The best option is to pin Predator in between two cars that are crushed together and just start shooting him a lot.
Damage Dealing
The Marines could be able to stick a sticker on Predator and rip it off to deal damage. However, the act of putting on a sticker will likely lead to a Marine dying.
The stickers will be too difficult to place on more immediately fatal areas, like Predator's head, or his weapons, as Predator is much larger than a human and he'll likely kill a Marine if they reach for his weapon.
I will concede that you might be better off tiering with Galahad instead of the 4 Marines, but I still think the stickers are too difficult to use in an effective manner for the tiersetter fight, as they place the user at an immense risk of just straight up dying to Predator to use on him, or require having to set up an elaborate scenario that only has a chance of working. I can see Ermes fitting in as an Unlikely Victory scenario, but because you need to bring the fight up to a Draw or a Likely Victory, I don't think she really fits.