i've been watching a bunch of Ken Burns documentary series lately, and I'm struggling to imagine the serious tone of those narrators and historical pieces translating into the future... like when somebody 25-30 years from now tries to make a documentary like that about this time, the actual footage of the president speaking will just look and sound ridiculous. all the speeches of nixon and JFK and johnson seemed professional at least, regardless of your position on vietnam or anything else.
My family's first niece is turning 2 in March. I love her to absolute pieces, and in just a couple years when she starts to comprehend the general idea of a single person being the head of one of the 3 branches of government, and when she starts to learn about all the past presidents, she'll inevitably make her way to Trump. And I swear to god I have absolutely no idea how I'm supposed to handle it. Say what you want about Bush Jr., say what you want about previous administrations, you could at least look at them and debate the pros and cons of what they were able to accomplish, but with Trump I genuinely don't know how we're going to explain it to up and coming generations.
Trump is something so completely off-balance, something so vehemently disrespectful, so sadistic and depressing and unfathomable to government as we know it, but we'll eventually be the ones to answer for our mistakes years down the road as a country. And frankly, I have absolutely no idea how I'll handle it.
You tell her the truth. That good-intentioned people who thought they were smart were manipulated by the bad-faith, hostile acts of a foreign government perpetrated by online disinformation campaigns scientifically developed to trigger certain emotional responses in certain segments of our population. And that it worked. And that this is why she needs to be careful when she uses the Internet, and is why she needs to think for herself and educate herself so she doesn't fall victim to the lies and crimes of others. Teach her that the Internet is a tool just like any other, and if she doesn't use it properly, she could seriously hurt herself. Tell her you wouldn't let her use a chainsaw without proper supervision or training, so you won't let her use the Internet without proper supervision or training.
Tell her that Trump was aberration - a representation of the worst of our country, which was brought to the forefront because another country wanted to tear us down to their level. And tell her that it doesn't represent the majority, not even close. Tell her to look at Trump as an example of why this country was founded, why the protections against the government in our Constitution are so important, and why it's important to participate in our democracy. And tell her that what makes our country great is that, while we may trip up or go the wrong direction at times, we nonetheless have the potential and capacity for great change, and that it's up to her and her generation to make sure this amazing experiment of a country moves closer and closer to fulfilling the aspirations set forth by our founders and ancestors.
Edit: The fact that this comment has brought the propagandists and the brainwashed out of the woodwork is just further proof of the veracity of my statements. Keep em coming, comrades. The more you post, the more you prove me right. This wouldn’t strike such a chord with you if there weren’t truth behind it.
Edit 2: To anyone who thinks blaming Russia is the wrong choice, you severely underestimate how effective their tactics were. These tactics were engineered using the scientific method and a complex understanding of psychology. They effectively figured how to use the Internet for inception purposes, and it worked. To think otherwise is, quite frankly, naive and dangerous. Trump simply would not have won without that effort being so effective. That’s the indisputable fact of the matter. And that’s why blame falls primarily on Russia. Refusing to blame them as the major force behind this is exactly what Putin would want, as well...
Also note how I never said to blame Russia and no one else. Of course racism and classism are huge problems in our society and there are other things to blame. But those existed before 2016 just as much as they did during the election. Fox News was always this way, the GOP was always this way, corporate influence was always this way. Trump would not have won simply because we are a racist, classist society. But what would have stopped him from winning was if Russia didn’t manipulate and brainwash a massive portion of our population. If we’re ever going to come together as Americans, we need to forgive those good people who were brainwashed. And that’s going to take some careful thought on our part to mete out the good-intentioned brainwashed from the bad-intentioned racists and fascists. But that’s not a story to tell your sons and daughters, because that’s not their fight (yet) - that’s still our fight. This was a suggestion on how to heal our country, and it has to start with teaching our children that our country isn’t full of horrible people because it’s not.
Well, that's not true either. Trump is not a symptom of just Russia interfering. He's a symptom of an extremely partisan nation, a broken political system, and deeply-rooted racist views.
To wave it off as an aberration is harmful to the future. This cannot be allowed to happen again. Money must be taken out of politics, the electoral college must be abolished, first past the post has to be removed, and so on. In short, America has to become a first world country.
The alternative is that the pendulum swings back in 10 years and this time it's a Chinese puppet in office.
Absolutely this. Russia has undeniably attempted to mess with democracy but that was only a fragment of the equation. Meddling alone wouldn't have worked if (going by approval polls through over 2 years) around 30+% of Americans didn't wholeheartedly support him. Whether they're bigoted, partisan, single-issue, nationalistic, willfully ignorant, or etc, they have stayed loyal through his increasingly erratic behavior, unabashed lies and changeable goalposts. If any, they have become more blindly apologetic of him.
They're certainly not a majority but they're a significant percentage of aggressively militant, falsehood-spreading and loudly opinionated Americans. You only need one or two of them acting in bad faith to contaminate and deflect any serious political group discussion. They're a more immediate worry than any Russian meddling.
So wait which one of these opposite posts is the correct one. Can /u/TuckerMcG and /u/Dworgi collaborate in PMs and come up with a unified thesis that covers both bases?
Ha! I don't think they're mutually exclusive, are they? It can be both an aberration rooted in a deficit of some sort. Like, I dunno, getting cancer because of smoking and living in a really dirty city. Each can happen on their own separately, but higher chances when there's both.
Right - and Russia has been pumping money into the GOP, the Centre for National Policy, the NRA and other right wing causes since the early '80s - to create exactly that situation. This didn't start in 2016.
Russian Intel can walk and chew gum. Their attack was multi-pronged and hit multiple targets. The influence was pro Trump because even in the primary, even disregarding Trump's history with Russian money/assets, he was best suited to be manipulated and reach their goals. To attack Democrats and part the party was just phase two. Simultaneously control the conversation and controversies. Don't view these things as conflicting because they fit together like Vodka and Borscht.
i’m confused why you start by saying that we shouldn’t “pretend the russian interference campaign was pro-trump,” because it seems like everything you say after that supports the conclusion that it was, including pushing support for bernie on reddit
edit: your change to the first sentence clarifies what you meant, thanks.
I think you're right, but I suspect a number of people are only going to read your first sentence and infer that you're saying Putin didn't want to get Trump elected.
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u/BreezyWrigley Jan 09 '19
i've been watching a bunch of Ken Burns documentary series lately, and I'm struggling to imagine the serious tone of those narrators and historical pieces translating into the future... like when somebody 25-30 years from now tries to make a documentary like that about this time, the actual footage of the president speaking will just look and sound ridiculous. all the speeches of nixon and JFK and johnson seemed professional at least, regardless of your position on vietnam or anything else.